looking for advice on first ML purchase

[fran]

I am interested in getting my first muzzleloader and appreciate any advice. I will primarily hunt with the muzzleloader in Massachusetts (and possibly some in CT and NY). Massachusetts does not allow rifle for deer hunting and I have a spot in Massachusetts where there is a good opportunity for 200 yard shot on a buck (and it is not possible to get closer due to property boundries, wind, etc. ). I am hoping I can reach out farther (with more accuracy) than my shotgun for shotgun season in Massachusetts), which my friends tell me I can. I also am interested in muzzleloading season. A few of them have CVA's (one a wolf, one an optima V2). I was looking at CVA's Accura with the Bergara Barrel.

I am not stuck on getting a cva, but they seem to be pretty decent as far as bang for your buck. I did not want to over spend if can reach out to 200 yards with confidence in humanely shooting a deer (In terms of accuracy, minimum energy 1000 foot pounds and terminal velocity (I guess it would depend on the projectile). I know I need to do my part with practice, and load development if necessary.

I was also considering a 45 vs a 50 cal for ballistic efficiency. Are components even more scarce for a 45?

One last question: is 250 yards in the realm of possibilities or am I being unrealistic?

 

[deermanok]

Welcome from Oklahoma.
Plenty of choices out there for muzzleloaders.
200 to 250 yards is a long poke for muzzleloader. It's doable but still a long ways.
IMO, out to 175 yards or so is a more realistic range for a soot burner.

 

[fran]

Deermanok, Thanks for your straight forward answer on the distance limits. 175 might get me there. In your opinion is the limiting factor more driven by accuracy or energy?

 

[deermanok]

I think it's a bit of both, actually.
It would take a lot of practice and experimenting with bullets and powder loads to get good long range accuracy and consistency.

 

[deermanok]

There's plenty of published data out there that talks about muzzleloader bullet drop and energy over various distances.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I would add that if you are going with CVA stay with a .50 as their .45 have been questionable lately.
I dont know your budget but Knight has a 200yd moa guarantee. And if you want to buy a really nice gun made local to you then seriously consider the Woodman Patriot.

 

[fran]

I would add that if you are going with CVA stay with a .50 as their .45 have been questionable lately.
I dont know your budget but Knight has a 200yd moa guarantee. And if you want to buy a really nice gun made local to you then seriously consider the Woodman Patriot.

I didn't realize the .45 in has been questionable lately: QC problem?
I was also worried about .45 vs .5 component availability. Was interested in .45 for ballistic advantage but this is out the window with qc problems or a lack of availability of components for loading. Thanks.

 

[fran]

I didn't realize the .45 in has been questionable lately: QC problem?
I was also worried about .45 vs .5 component availability. Was interested in .45 for ballistic advantage but this is out the window with qc problems or a lack of availability of components for loading. Thanks.

also, I subscribe to buy once cry once. but my wife will cry louder- so im not sure of what I want to spend.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

They(cva) have said that they built their guns to shoot their bullets(powerbelts). There are plenty of great bullets available for .45s but many are too small for CVAs barrels that may be bored larger than whats considered standard, .450 to .452. There is one guy who has measured his CVA paramount(?) bore at .457. Which is huge compared to most ML bullets and barrels. That limits what you can shoot. They are still very accurate but only with certain bullets. The Woodman comes with well known great barrels that typically shot almost anything very well. I have an early Accura LR .45 that is awesome. But i think now that the Knight UL and the Woodman Patriot are the best guns out there short of a custom.

 

[fran]

They(cva) have said that they built their guns to shoot their bullets(powerbelts). There are plenty of great bullets available for .45s but many are too small for CVAs barrels that may be bored larger than whats considered standard, .450 to .452. There is one guy who has measured his CVA paramount(?) bore at .457. Which is huge compared to most ML bullets and barrels. That limits what you can shoot. They are still very accurate but only with certain bullets. The Woodman comes with well known great barrels that typically shot almost anything very well. I have an early Accura LR .45 that is awesome. But i think now that the Knight UL and the Woodman Patriot are the best guns out there short of a custom.

wow! that sounds terrible. I just checked out some of the bad news on CVA .45s and the knight
and woodman company too. thanks

 

[.45er]

I am interested in getting my first muzzleloader and appreciate any advice. I will primarily hunt with the muzzleloader in Massachusetts (and possibly some in CT and NY). Massachusetts does not allow rifle for deer hunting and I have a spot in Massachusetts where there is a good opportunity for 200 yard shot on a buck (and it is not possible to get closer due to property boundries, wind, etc. ). I am hoping I can reach out farther (with more accuracy) than my shotgun for shotgun season in Massachusetts), which my friends tell me I can. I also am interested in muzzleloading season. A few of them have CVA's (one a wolf, one an optima V2). I was looking at CVA's Accura with the Bergara Barrel.

I am not stuck on getting a cva, but they seem to be pretty decent as far as bang for your buck. I did not want to over spend if can reach out to 200 yards with confidence in humanely shooting a deer (In terms of accuracy, minimum energy 1000 foot pounds and terminal velocity (I guess it would depend on the projectile). I know I need to do my part with practice, and load development if necessary.

I was also considering a 45 vs a 50 cal for ballistic efficiency. Are components even more scarce for a 45?

One last question: is 250 yards in the realm of possibilities or am I being unrealistic?

There's lots of great shooting MLers out there. I happen to have three. 45 inline CVA smokers...all shoot great. Two of the three have tight Bergara Barrels which shoot numerous loads accurately...whereas the other CVA barrel prefers projectiles and loads necessary for a looser fitting bore.
Realistically 175 yards is do-able for me...but would reach for my Kodiak Pro with its 29 inch barrel for distance shots.
‐---‐--------------------------
p.s. I'm in MA also. Lots of good bucks in these woods. I saw a nice buck the other day worthy of a shoulder mount.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

There's lots of great shooting MLers out there. I happen to have three. 45 inline CVA smokers...all shoot great. Two of the three have tight Bergara Barrels which shoot numerous loads accurately...whereas the other CVA barrel prefers projectiles and loads necessary for a looser fitting bore.
Realistically 175 yards is do-able for me...but would reach for my Kodiak Pro with its 29 inch barrel for distance shots.
‐---‐--------------------------
p.s. I'm in MA also. Lots of good bucks in these woods. I saw a nice buck the other day worthy of a shoulder mount.

I love the Kodiaks. I have a .45 that i need to exercise some. Imho, any .45 CVA older than 2019 will have a great barrel. Some later will also but im not sold on them. I really really wanted to buy the .45 MR-X but i just dont have faith that i would get a great bore.

 

[MrTom]

I love my Kodiak .45.... except its weight. It's really comfortable to shoot though. M Kodiak has a tight barrel even with the light blue crush ribs and a Barnes or XTP bullet. Very accurate rifle.

 

[.45er]

I love my Kodiak .45.... except its weight. It's really comfortable to shoot though. M Kodiak has a tight barrel even with the light blue crush ribs and a Barnes or XTP bullet. Very accurate rifle.

Yea, they're not light-weights, but it does make the higher charged loads easier to shoulder.
The triggers typically come with a heavy pull out of the factory. I sent mine to CVA to have the triggers lightened--up. They did a great job free of charge.

 

[MrTom]

I've never had a trigger weight problem with the Kodiak I hunt, a .45 cal. I have another Kodiak that I don't think has ever seen a bullet and the trigger on that one is maybe a bit of a fit, but I don't shoot it at all so it's no biggie to me.

The .45 I hunt is an accurate gun with either a 200 grain XTP or a 195 grain Barnes Expander.

 

[RobRed]

I am in the same boat, new to muzzleloading and hunting the same states. I went with a CVA accura mrx in .50

Pretty happy with this choice because the gun is dirt simple, shoots lights out even without Blackhorn 209 which is hard to come by and stupid expensive. Some of the newer long range .45s are engineered for BH209… not sure how critical it is to use it. I don’t think they would like anything in pellets though.

Also .50 bullets are everywhere and plenty of options to try.

Right now I’m shooting groups at 100 the circumference of a beer can and I’m still learning the gun.

 

[Harley469]

If you are going to stretch it out that far, no matter what gun you choose, make sure you have a good optic on it. This is an entirely separate discussion, but 200yrds is a long way for a ML (depending on several factors). I recently converted my Remington Ultimate to smokeless, which really will stretch things out, but that can be big money. I would look into a Remington Ultimate- It will definitely take a deer at 200yrds, with practice and working up the right load/bullet/sabot combination. Since Remington sold out, I don't know if the Ultimate is even being produced any longer, but it is a tremendous ML. I have owned CVA's, which are also very good, but I wouldn't shoot any of them, with the exception of the Paramount out to 200+

 

[fran]

If you are going to stretch it out that far, no matter what gun you choose, make sure you have a good optic on it. This is an entirely separate discussion, but 200yrds is a long way for a ML (depending on several factors). I recently converted my Remington Ultimate to smokeless, which really will stretch things out, but that can be big money. I would look into a Remington Ultimate- It will definitely take a deer at 200yrds, with practice and working up the right load/bullet/sabot combination. Since Remington sold out, I don't know if the Ultimate is even being produced any longer, but it is a tremendous ML. I have owned CVA's, which are also very good, but I wouldn't shoot any of them, with the exception of the Paramount out to 200+

Thanks for your advice. I think the Remington ultimate is a bolt? Mass requires a ML that loads from the end of the barrel rather than the breach, so as much as I love the accuracy potential I can't, because of MA hunting rules, with that.

UPDATE: I went with a CVA optima V2 nitride. I was interested in Patriot and a Knight, and of course higher end customs, but being a newbie I decided to start with a lower budget ML and learn from it. The Optima is something that can still have great use for, me distance limitations aside.

I also eventually will look into a more primitive ML to dabble with and hang over my fireplace if I can make it safe. That is another chapter for another time....

I just now need to figure out how to deal with ammo components just like I am dealing with with my Rifles.

Thanks to everyone who helped with advice-- I really appreciate it! and Good luck with your ML hunting everyone! Mine Optima should arrive in two days, so hopefully I can get the ML up and running for part of the Mass ML season.

 

[NicoleN]

I am interested in getting my first muzzleloader and appreciate any advice. I will primarily hunt with the muzzleloader in Massachusetts (and possibly some in CT and NY). Massachusetts does not allow rifle for deer hunting and I have a spot in Massachusetts where there is a good opportunity for 200 yard shot on a buck (and it is not possible to get closer due to property boundries, wind, etc. ). I am hoping I can reach out farther (with more accuracy) than my shotgun for shotgun season in Massachusetts), which my friends tell me I can. I also am interested in muzzleloading season. A few of them have CVA's (one a wolf, one an optima V2). I was looking at CVA's Accura with the Bergara Barrel.

I am not stuck on getting a cva, but they seem to be pretty decent as far as bang for your buck. I did not want to over spend if can reach out to 200 yards with confidence in humanely shooting a deer (In terms of accuracy, minimum energy 1000 foot pounds and terminal velocity (I guess it would depend on the projectile). I know I need to do my part with practice, and load development if necessary.

I was also considering a 45 vs a 50 cal for ballistic efficiency. Are components even more scarce for a 45?

One last question: is 250 yards in the realm of possibilities or am I being unrealistic?

I'm still new with muzzleloaders and have never hunted, but in Massachusetts, is a muzzleloader not a rifle? Or do they mean center fire cartridges?

 

[jd24.5.48]

Thanks for your advice. I think the Remington ultimate is a bolt? Mass requires a ML that loads from the end of the barrel rather than the breach, so as much as I love the accuracy potential I can't, because of MA hunting rules, with that.

UPDATE: I went with a CVA optima V2 nitride. I was interested in Patriot and a Knight, and of course higher end customs, but being a newbie I decided to start with a lower budget ML and learn from it. The Optima is something that can still have great use for, me distance limitations aside.

I also eventually will look into a more primitive ML to dabble with and hang over my fireplace if I can make it safe. That is another chapter for another time....

I just now need to figure out how to deal with ammo components just like I am dealing with with my Rifles.

Thanks to everyone who helped with advice-- I really appreciate it! and Good luck with your ML hunting everyone! Mine Optima should arrive in two days, so hopefully I can get the ML up and running for part of the Mass ML season.

I've been using Cva muzzleloaders for the last 25 years or so. The Hornady xtp 240s have always shot good for me out to 100yds. I'm currently shooting the Accura V2 lr with 80grn by volume of blackhorn and the hornady xtp 240s. If you're wanting to shoot farther than 100yds I don't know what that combo would do because I haven't shot that far away yet.