Measuring blackhorn

[Dougs136Schwartz]

I left a weighed powder charge on my scale by accident . (Hornady digital scale)For what ever reason that charge gained weight . I thought it was possibly moisture but others weighed out charges, left them out and the weight did not change . I honestly think it had something to do with my digital scale. Possibly static ?

After lot 30 Blackhorn 209 is more consistant so all of this really doesnt matter.

2 years ago Walmart carried Blackhorn 209 for the first time . All Blackhorn 209 at Wal Mart was lot 27 and was rumored to be Westerns hottest batch ever. So being the obsessive idiot i am i bought every Blackhorn 209 bottle i could find at any Walmart . I accumulated over 30lbs of the stuff.

My conclusion was that yes lot 27 was hotter than any other lot i had ever shot. But... only if measured by volume . The grains were actually smaller kinda like comparing FFF Black powder compared to FF Black powder. Yes it was hotter only because i was using more powder by volume. If i weighed the charges (lot 27 vs any other lot)there was very little difference.

This finding was completly different than what I thought and what i have been told. I always thought that by measuring Blackhorn 209 by volume would be more consistant . I tested this theory twice with a buddy . Both times we came to the same conclusion. If weighing Blackhorn 209 there is very little difference in velocity from lot to lot.

After lot 30 it does not make much of a difference .(weight vs volume) The grains are bigger with a bigger hole in the center. Blackhorn 209 now is more consistant in size. Honestly none of this really matters as long as you measure your charges the same. Volume works just fine.

 

[ronlaughlin]

After lot 30 it does not make much of a difference .(weight vs volume) The grains are bigger with a bigger hole in the center. Blackhorn 209 now is more consistant in size. Honestly none of this really matters as long as you measure your charges the same. Volume works just fine.

Please allow my caution regarding your statements. Some of us still possess Blackhorn jugs of lots older than lot 30.... And......Some have mentioned their volume measurements vary by as much as three grain weight...

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

what do you disagree with Ron ? I am not sure i am following you. I agree measuring by volume does make a difference when comparing lot to lot. (before lot 30) Unless you are mixing lots and you measure your loads the same by volume it really does not matter. I guess if you are mixing lots then measuring by weight would give you your most consistant velocities.

My lot 27 powder does weigh more by volume than my lot 30 powder.
My lot 27 powder 120 grains by Volume will weigh 90 to 95 grains
My lot 30 powder 120 grains by volume weighs closer to 84 grains (aprox 84 to 89) grains by weight

I think we are both correct. I am just saying if measuring your powder by volume from the same lot providing you are doing everything the same your accuracy will be fine for the average hunter.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

I am not very good at getting my point across but i am pretty sure we are saying the same thing.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I am not very good at getting my point across but i am pretty sure we are saying the same thing.

Are YOU going to weigh yours, or use it by volume? That includes competitions....

 

[MrTom]

Since BH209is not a round granule, it cannot fill a measure the same each time. Literally, its a matter of how it "stacks" up in the tube. Were it round, then every fill would be far more consistent. From lot to lot one will have to fill, say, ten tubes at whatever load he desires and then weigh each individually, total the weights and divide by 10 to get an average weight and then use that as his weighed load. The idea that volume is volume is going to be part myth because of the shape of the granules and having no control over how there enter and fill in the tube. And some people give their tubes a tap to level the volume....that too will change weights.

 

[ronlaughlin]

what do you disagree with Ron ? ......

Nothing. Just wanted to mention that there are still a bunch of pre lot 30 jugs in service, and also some folks don't measure volume very accurately.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I've always weighed BH and will likely never change. I do believe I'll use the method Ron uses with the RCBS Uniflow, then trickle to the final weight/s.

 

[Busta]

Some of you guys are making this easy task, way harder than it has to be.

Wipe VOLUMETRIC powder measure and any tubes you want to fill with a fabric softener sheet to remove static. Overfill T/ U-View powder measure adjusted to your volume setting over a bowl, give it 10 quick snaps with your finger to settle powder completely. Strike off top with spout, pour powder in tube or barrel.

Once you remove the static, Volume charges are easy to throw accurately after tapping to settle completely. One or three taps just ain't gonna do it!

Shoot and enjoy. Repeat!

 

[ENCORE50A]

Some of you guys are making this easy task, way harder than it has to be.

Wipe VOLUMETRIC powder measure and any tubes you want to fill with a fabric softener sheet to remove static. Overfill T/ U-View powder measure adjusted to your volume setting over a bowl, give it 10 quick snaps with your finger to settle powder completely. Strike off top with spout, pour powder in tube or barrel.

Once you remove the static, Volume charges are easy to throw accurately after tapping to settle completely. One or three taps just ain't gonna do it!

Shoot and enjoy. Repeat!

That's true, but some of us are trying to hit a dime at 300yds

 

[GM54-120]

My conclusion was that yes lot 27 was hotter than any other lot i had ever shot. But... only if measured by volume . The grains were actually smaller kinda like comparing FFF Black powder compared to FF Black powder. Yes it was hotter only because i was using more powder by volume. If i weighed the charges (lot 27 vs any other lot)there was very little difference.

This finding was completly different than what I thought and what i have been told. I always thought that by measuring Blackhorn 209 by volume would be more consistant . I tested this theory twice with a buddy . Both times we came to the same conclusion. If weighing Blackhorn 209 there is very little difference in velocity from lot to lot.

Solid fuel is measured by mass to obtain the BTUs (energy) contained in it. Its only logical that more "fuel" by mass creates more energy. Volume of a solid that varies in size/weight would not be as accurate in calculating energy contained. This is why i never understood why some people suggested if you measure BH209 by volume from lot to lot you would get better accuracy than by using weight.

It just dont make sense to me. So i agree with the quote in bold.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

i weigh my Blackhorn 209 to the exact ! Am i being anal ?absolutely ! Do i think it matters all that much ?? Probably not.

Just makes me feel better .

 

[sabotloader]

i weigh my Blackhorn 209 to the exact ! Am i being anal ?absolutely ! Do i think it matters all that much ?? Probably not.

Just makes me feel better .

Wait Doug! If your efforts are to be precise on the range and in competition - I would weigh also - every load. Nothing better than being repetitive from shot-to-shot.

In my case as a hunter using a volume measure that I am totally familiar with and more importantly developing a consistent way of throwing an cutting powder each and every time I believe I am very consistent each time. Yes, I have weighed my thrown charges on occasions to verify what I feel I am doing. Also computed into my thoughts is that here in Northern Idaho 200+ yards would be the longest shot I might attempt at an elk.

One other factor figures in... in my testing I have never been able to prove that a load variance of 3-5 grains make a perceptible difference at 100 yards.

 

[Busta]

That's true, but some of us are trying to hit a dime at 300yds

What did that poor dime ever do to you?

I'm not talking about you analysts that are weighing your powder. I'm talking about getting VOLUMETRIC charges consistent enough that it doesn't make any difference.

It helps to keep your powder in the same lot # by buying by the case, or 5# jug. This is true whether you measure by Volume or weight.

 

[ENCORE50A]

What did that poor dime ever do to you?

I'm not talking about you analysts that are weighing your powder. I'm talking about getting VOLUMETRIC charges consistent enough that it doesn't make any difference.

It helps to keep your powder in the same lot # by buying by the case, or 5# jug. This is true whether you measure by Volume or weight.

Well what I can tell you is, that dime certainly didn't wear a hole in my pocket LOL
If I didn't care about trying to do better tomorrow than I did today, it wouldn't matter as long as one stayed consistent.
I don't believe I'll ever not buy BH other than by the 5# container from now on.

 

[Chick]

i weigh my Blackhorn 209 to the exact ! Am i being anal ?absolutely ! Do i think it matters all that much ?? Probably not.

Just makes me feel better .

Chunk the scales. Buy you a brass volumetric measure and use it. The BH209 measures and shoots consistent when charges are measure by volume. The best bench rest shooter, and best F Class shooter I know, throws charges by volume. Granted, not all powders will throw consistently by volume, but Black Horn does.

 

[45-70]

This measure is a cash , I believe and works really well for measurig powder , black , to BH209. It throws volume to weight close as any I have tried. A friend found that the early lots of blackhorn some of the granules didn't have the holes, which made it weigh different with in the same can. Just my opinion .

 

[ENCORE50A]

Chunk the scales. Buy you a brass volumetric measure and use it. The BH209 measures and shoots consistent when charges are measure by volume. The best bench rest shooter, and best F Class shooter I know, throws charges by volume. Granted, not all powders will throw consistently by volume, but Black Horn does.

The guy you quoted, is a 2 or 3 time National muzzleloader champion.

It certainly depends on exactly what a shooter is trying to accomplish. If its hunting accuracy, its one thing. If its extreme accuracy, its a total different matter IMO.

Just a 2gr difference if measuring by volume, or even weight for that matter, can make a significant difference in long range accuracy and groups. If its only hunting accuracy, then that's different.

 

[qwakattak]

Darn it, now I've got to jump into this hot mess.

If I dump 100gr by volume into a T.C U-view measurer, scrape across the top so that it's level, and don't tap it, and then weigh it, I get 75gr by weight. If I put that same powder back into the U-View and then tap it, it settles down to 93gr by volume. SO....is this charge a 100gr by volume charge or a 93gr by volume charge? I don't see a lot number on my powder.

 

[GM54-120]

The guy you quoted, is a 2 or 3 time National muzzleloader champion.

It certainly depends on exactly what a shooter is trying to accomplish. If its hunting accuracy, its one thing. If its extreme accuracy, its a total different matter IMO.

Just a 2gr difference if measuring by volume, or even weight for that matter, can make a significant difference in long range accuracy and groups. If its only hunting accuracy, then that's different.

Plus the fact that eludes most that use that argument....Bench rest competition shooters are trying to achieve a full case when they use volume. A muzzleloader is always loaded to a compressed "full case" regardless of volume.