Navy Arms 2 Band Enfield-- turned Zouave

[Old and grumpy]

Here we go again. Found a Navy Arms  2 Band Enfield rifle .58 cal for $199. Outside looks good,action is smooth, Bore was not cleaned after last firing. I'm not eager to get one -- but you know how that works.

What do you think of the price?

 

[JLBSparks]

How long since it was last shot? Makes a BIG difference.

   -Joe

 

[Okie Hog]

What do you think of the price?

The price is great, assuming the bore is not trashed.

 

[RonRC]

I have one of those that I found in a Pawn Shop. The barrel was filthy, but the $250 price was tempting. At home, I cleaned the heck out of the barrel and bore and the bore came up shiny and new-looking. The external surfaces of the gun looked new. To me, the price of the one you are looking at, $199, is well worth the gamble.
Ron

 

[Old and grumpy]

Thanks for the info. I don't know how long it has been dirty. 

Might just role the dice on this. Been kicking myself for missing that half built Juker Kentucky.

If nothing else clean it up polish the bore and re sell it.

 

[Old and grumpy]

I did it. This is my first BP long gun, Everything else are pistols.

Turns out the crud in the bore is mostly dust and spiders from being kept under a bed for years. The shop guy swabbed it and the patch came out almost clean.
The shop owner got it new 30? years ago. Fired it some but not a lot and hunted with it. It looks like it has been in the field but taken care of.

Now I need to find video of how to break it all the way down. Start with a total clean and lube.
------
Now for ammo. I only want to buy one mold. What would be the most accurate? Minie, Improved Minie, R.E.A.L, or Maxi Ball? Patched round? I will not be hunting with it.

For powder I have been told 60gr of 2F. What would be best.
-----
So this is the new girl dust and all. Didn't even wipe her down yet. She is too dang long for just one picture!
Attached Thumbnails

 

 

 

 

[Muley Hunter]

Keep it real and use a minie.

 

[Old and grumpy]

I cleaned the bore and dropped a thin flashlight down. The bore is very good. Don't see any pits.

50" long, 9? lbs, made in 1973 by Antonio Zoli. Now I need the bayonet!

 

[Old and grumpy]

OK. Now I need help. I know very little about Civil War Muskets.

In the shop they told me this was a 1858 2 band Enfield.

Looking on line it is more like a 1863 Remington "Zouave". The sights, Eagle on the lock, and trigger guard look like the Rem. I will try to get a good full length photo of it.

These are labeled "Zouave" on line.Mine looks like this. They are not mine. Mine are up top.
Attached Thumbnails

 

 

[Blacksheep]

Zouave Enfields did not have an eagle on it.   I just bought a Cook and Brothers musket and am getting various size weight and diameter of minie balls just bought the .577and was kinda disappointed at how they arrived 2-3 had really dented bases that i think rendered them unusable .  Going to order some .575 minie again from Track of the Wolf.
The Zouave reproductions are supposed to be of high quality .  From what I've read a starting load should be around 50 gr of FFG because you don't want to to badly distort the base of the Minie and work up from there.  The supposed standard load from the Civil War was 60 gr of FFG .

 

[Old and grumpy]

Thanks.  This is fun. Lots to learn. I had blood on both sides.

I think it's a Rem 1863. The bands are held in place by a spring latch the Enfield has a screw.
I ordered a mold from TOW. They have become my go to. It's a lee Original Minie,.575  500gr. Are the .577 more accurate?

For lube I saw one video where the guy filled the base with lube. That doesn't sound right. The melted lube would retard the burn.

 

[BrownBear]

For lube I saw one video where the guy filled the base with lube. That doesn't sound right. The melted lube would retard the burn.

Not really if the ignition starts at the bottom of the powder column. I tried putting a card between the powder and lube, and neither I nor the chronograph could spot a lick of difference. On the up side, adding the lube sure softened the fouling and made loading easier.

 

[Blacksheep]

As far as the bullet diameter each rifle is a world of its own thats why I am getting both I would think I want to be .002-.003 under the bore so they load easy but fit the bore tight upon firing for max accuracy.  I use SPG lube from tow and I put some in the base to help protect the base from distorting upon firing.

 

[Old and grumpy]

So the "Enfield" morphed in to a Rem 1863 "Zouave" reproduction.

Went to the range and made smoke! Was too hot to stay long at 100 but fired 15 rounds. First 10 off the berm just to see what it would do then the last 5 on paper at 75 yards. Considering that my brain was baked from working all day in that heat and I was not trying too hard the target was OK for a first go.

Balls&Lube--- I got a Lee 500gr Minie ball mold. They come out at 519gr. Lubed with SPG they are snug but seat easy. Do I need to fill the base with lube? I did it like Track of the Wolf said but it takes a LOT . The heat didn't help - messy. Based on what other guys have said I think I may skip filling the base with lube.

Powder-- I'm going to need a BIGGER flask! Loaded 60gr of 2f Goex. Nice cloud of smoke and the recoil was light. The fact that it weighs almost 10 pounds helps with that. I cut the charge to 50gr thinking I would run out. How light can I go and still be safe and have the ball leave the bore and get to the target? Is it safe to use 3f if I can't find 2f?

Caps-- It came with 2 nipples . One for musket caps and the other for <a href='/tags/11' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #11'>#11</a>. Both worked fine. Thought the <a href='/tags/11s' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #11s'>#11s</a> might be weak but were not. I tapped the side to get powder to the nipple like in my Kentucky pistol.

Sights-- It shoots high using the short sight. I was expecting that. I think the short one is for100 yards. Any idea what the other 2 were set for? Next time I will set up on the long range. I goes to 220 yards.

This is my first time with a BP long gun. Going to be fun.

If you have any tips or tricks I would like to know them.

Thanks O&G.
-----------

As for the base being distorted with heavier charges could that be overcome by using harder lead? If it can distort the skirt it should still be able to seat the ball in the rifling.
--------

Seating the ball--- There are 2 spots in the bore where the ball hangs up just a little. Cant see any pits.
Next time I will mark the rod then polish those spots extra. Watching video of people loading this looks common.

 

[Blacksheep]

I just fired about 20 50 cal minie balls in my CVA Missouri sidelock now they were 503 and snug but oh boy did they shoot at 60 yds so much so i want to try them at 75-100.  

You want some skirt distortion or flair that fills and seals the bore but to hot a load causes blow-by where the gases leaks around the edge I used 75 gr FFg Olde Enysford but I think I could go that hot because the 50 is a thicker bullet that 58 skirt is really thin in comparison.

There is a .577 Minie that does have a thicker skirt I bought some of those too.

 

[Old and grumpy]

Got out for the first good range day with it. The temp went down to 80.

With the base of the balls full of lube they turned it into the first gun I ever had that suffered from Boogers! Big Black Boogers hanging off the muzzle. No more lube in the base. Swabbed every few and it was fine.

Started with 60gr 2ff Goex off the 217 yard berm to warm up. Ran it up to 80gr-- that hurt. Settled at 50gr-- very nice. Then I fired back to back 80gr black and 80gr Pyrodex Select RS 2ff. The Pyrodex was very light recoil compaired to the Goex.
---
For targets I brought it in to 50 yards. With the exception of one flyer that broke the frame it was OK. It shot 6" high.

Then I went to 100yards. I was thrilled! I am old and should use glasses

but don't. I will call the 3 wide one warm up. The center just kept getting better and better.

Good day.
Attached Thumbnails

 

 

[Gramps]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/660600215[/font]


[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I have this one coming.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Just bought it by pictures and description on the site.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I have lots of Holy black and have boolets coming from Track of the Wolf.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Musket caps are/were available at Wally World.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I have a couple hundred stashed.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Pro'ly don't need anymore.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I think it would be tits to take a deer with it this fall.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thinking of 40 grains of Goex 2 fg to start with then go to my precious supply[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]of Swiss 2 f g.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Thoughts on 40 grains for a starter load then to 60 for a max charge?[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Shots at deer on my place seldom exceed 60 yards.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Last fall I bagged an 8 point on day one with my Marlin 1895 45-70 at about 40 paces.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Bang, flop![/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Gotta love the 45-70.[/font]

 

[Gramps]

@Old and Grumpy.
I'm old and grumpy also.
Glad to grump with ya.
Your targets at 50 & 100 look plenty deer worthy to me.
I'm downright anal about accuracy but sometimes good 'nuff is good 'nuff.

That big phatt boolet makes a big azzed hole through and through.

I'm getting soft in my old age and joined PETA.

People Eating Tasty Animals.

Snowflakes suck!

 

[Gramps]

HA! And for that price I'd have jumped all over it.
The one I have coming I paid $250 for and that was a good deal.

 

[Old and grumpy]

That is nice. Now for the bore ,the big question. Don't know about hunting with it. 40gr might be light. Must have a clean kill. http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html  Take this data and enter it in the top part of this computer to get muzzle energy-- "punch".   https://www.billstclair.com/energy.html
40gr  Might just knock them out or piss it off!

80gr hurt,60 is supposed to be standard , went to 50gr to save powder. I have been polishing the bore and next trip the targets should be better. The variable is my old eyes and nerves.

Check the patch box. Mine had a second  <a href='/tags/11' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #11'>#11</a> nipple screwed in a factory made hole in it. <a href='/tags/11' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #11'>#11</a> was hot enough to do just fine. In the cold or damp you might want the musket cap.
--------------
The fun stuff--
A new one $1080-  http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/blackpowder-rifles/civil-war-reproduction-muskets.html
Bayonets!  The one from Dixie looks better.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/438/1/BAYONET-ZOUAVE
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=965_968&products_id=3909

Also from TOW.  Need to road test it.