Neat Little .45 Greaser

[Idaholewis]

Couldn’t resist, I’m a Lyman Mold addict :lol: This should be a FUN little bullet to shoot, it filled a Small Gap in my .45 Cal bullet line up. I’m thinking 60 Grains of Swiss 3F my first outing. If this little bullet shoots well it Should make an awesome Bullet for deer, 250 Grains is Plenty of bullet and then some for Deer, and this little fella has a nice wide Meplat :yeah: This bullet measures .640 in length, and average Weights are 251.5 front Cavity and 252 Grains for the rear Cavity, They Drop from the mold at .453 Which is IDEAL to lube and run through a .452 Sizer. Hopefully they shoot Good!

Pics aren’t anything great, this Camera sucks a WHOLE bunch!

 

[edmehlig]

Love that wide meplat! Can’t wait to see your range report. Your right that should do just fine on deer.

 

[Idaholewis]

I just loaded my rifle so I’m committed :lol: I decided to load the Cold Clean bore straight from the mold, Just lube and load, Glad i did that, There is no need to Run these Through my sizer, They load like a DREAM straight from the mold, Bullet started easy with just my thumb, and held the bore with nice steady pressure all the way to the Powder (i would guess 2-3 pounds of pressure on my Range Rod) this little bullet will DEFINITELY stay put on the powder :yeah: I ended up going with 55 Grains of Swiss 3F, Will see how they work out at first light

 

[Semisane]

Fine looking bullet Lewis. I too like that wide meplat. Looking forward to a shooting report. Pure lead or alloy?

By the way, those pictures are high quality on my PC. Clear and sharp.

 

[Idaholewis]

:yeah:

Fine looking bullet Lewis. I too like that wide meplat. Looking forward to a shooting report. Pure lead or alloy?

By the way, those pictures are high quality on my PC. Clear and sharp.

These are poured from 1-40 Certified Alloy from Buffalo Arms, This stuff runs 8.5 BHN, I’ve sure had good luck with it in these Muzzleloaders. I pretty much gave up on pure lead quite sometime back, If these smaller bullets were pure lead they would get “Mushy” not far down the bore, and by the time they hit the powder they would be loose, much to lose for my liking. (I’ve had my Rodeo’s with that!) I ended up trying this 1-40 Stuff in hopes of fixing that, sure enough it solved the problem, plus it shoots very well for me. 1-40 is not really that hard, The Sprues stil “slide cut” Where 1-30, 1-20 etc. will actually ‘break off’ or tear out at the Sprue cut.

With Pure lead the Longer the Bearing surface, the better off you are for them to hold the bore good n tight all the way down. Ed’s Lyman Gould VS his 465s Sized Through the Same sizer die are a Prime example of this, The 465s load VERY SOLID in my rifle all the way to the Powder, This is due to the Much Longer Bearing surface, The much shorter Gould bullet on the hand starts to get “Mushy” Just Before they get to the powder. 1-40 Alloy Solves this problem with the Shorter bullets :yeah:

 

[Idaholewis]

I headed straight back to a True 100 yards and gave these bullets a go, I brought my Chronograph along to see what these things were doing? I was surprised, With just 55 Grains of Swiff 3F my Velocity was 1,455 FPS! Which I believe is to fast for these? My next outing i plan to try 2 Extremes, A 5 shot Group with 40 Grains of Swiss 3F, and a 5 Shot Group with 70 Grains of Swiss 3F, This should tell me wich way works, and which doesn’t? I feel confident this little bullet will shoot better than i shot it this morning

My first 3 Shots, 55 Grains of Swiss 3F

And my last 2 shots, The Group measured just barely under 3” While not Great by any means, I don’t consider this horrible either, Again this was a True 100 yards, and obviously open sights. I feel the little bullet is traveling to fast? I will soon find out when i drop the charge to 40 for a Group, and raise it to 70 for another Group.

Clocked load, Fairly impressive for just 55 Grains of Pistol powder

Note my Thermacell, Skeeters were bad! They don’t like these thing tho!

 

[Semisane]

As you said, not horrible. But I was expecting it to be a little tighter than that. It seems to me the velocity is about right for a bullet like that. It will be interesting to see the results of the slower/faster trial. I'm assuming you're using a wad under the bullet.

I wish that bullet had a flat base rather than the bit of bevel. It may be my imagination, but I've always thought flat bases shot better than bevel bases.

 

[Idaholewis]

As you said, not horrible. But I was expecting it to be a little tighter than that. It seems to me the velocity is about right for a bullet like that. It will be interesting to see the results of the slower/faster trial. I'm assuming you're using a wad under the bullet.

I wish that bullet had a flat base rather than the bit of bevel. It may be my imagination, but I've always thought flat bases shot better than bevel bases.

Yep on the OP Wad, I always use 1, with GG bullets i have always had my best luck with 1/8” Wool, Vege Fibre has not worked well for me with GG bullets. I ABSOLUTELY agree about the Bevel base, i was gonna state that above, i wish it was a Sharp Flat base without that bevel! I am a firm believer in 1300 FPS in these Muzzleloaders, to me 1450 is on the Fast side. BUT then again the little 188 Grain bullet I recently tried Shot really well with 50 Grains of Swiss 3F, And After Chronographing this 250 Grain bullet with just 5 more Grains of the Same powder, i can only imagine that little 188 Grain bullet had to of been 1550 or there abouts? BUT that little 188 Grain bullet does NOT have a beveled base like this 250 Grain, It is Flat/straight with a sharp base.

I have my rifle cleaned, gonna load up with 40 Grains of Swiss 3F, which should put me down in that 1300 FPS range? I think that is where it will shoot it’s best? Will soon find out :yeah:

 

[Idaholewis]

I might end up sending this Mold to Eric and having him take the Bevel out of it. Hey 52bore, can you do something like this?

 

[Idaholewis]

I gave these little Bevel base bullets another go around this morning, i went with 65 Grains of powder and tried a Vege fibre OP Wad with a Light printer paper Card on top of the Vege fibre (thinking i would get better bullet Wad seperation) Accuracy was nothing great again, My best Group was with 55 Grains of powder at 1455 FPS, I might try it 1 more time at 55 Grains and try a different Wad Combo, I am pretty close to giving up on this one now. These little bullets had to of been REALLY scooting along this morning with 65 Grains of Swiss 3F, From my 55 Grain Load Clocking in at 1455 i Would imagine they were 1550 or so this Morning with the extra 10 Grains of powder? Probably to fast for this little bullet?

 

[Semisane]

Damn shame they won't perform well. As a last resort you can probably use them for 50 yard small game and plinking loads. I'd bet they shoot really well with a 30-35 grain charge.

 

[Idaholewis]

Damn shame they won't perform well. As a last resort you can probably use them for 50 yard small game and plinking loads. I'd bet they shoot really well with a 30-35 grain charge.

I tried them with 40 Grains and they shot like Crap, This one just ain’t meant to be in my 1:30 Twist Muzzleloader. This Mold will move on to a Pistol shooter :yeah:

 

[Harleysboss]

Maybe just not enough baring surface on that bullet to grab good hold of the rifling?? All I know is that it looks like you are beginning to shoot groups like mine oke:

 

[Semisane]

Lew, how do they fit your bore without sizing?

 

[Idaholewis]

Lew, how do they fit your bore without sizing?

They fit good :yeah: The very first loading on a clean bore starts out good n tight, and about 3/4 down you can feel the bullet slightly loosen, but it’s not bad at all, i would definitely trust it to stay put. I Swab Between shots every outing to keep things as consistent as possible, But as you know some fouling stil gets left behind (especially in the Grooves) Loading these bullets on a fouled bore they get tighter all the way down, just a good steady push all the way. :yeah:

The Grooves in these bullets kinda remind me of a TC Maxi ball, minus the oversized driving band. It’s the larger bottom Groove i suppose that reminds me of them. I will play around a little more with these before giving up on them. But this particular rifle is my “Go To” for accuracy, and it not shooting these well is not looking good for this particular little bullet

 

[Idaholewis]

Maybe just not enough baring surface on that bullet to grab good hold of the rifling?? All I know is that it looks like you are beginning to shoot groups like mine oke:

LOL! This Group was definitely nothing to write home about :lol: My first shot was on top of the Bull, and my next shot was about dead on 9 O’clock, About 6-8” apart, The last of my Group stayed up above the Bull, But not tight together. I didn’t bother measuring, i seen my Rifle wasn’t gonna shoot them tight so i went ahead and Sent all 6 at the Steel since i was there, and had everything layed out. After a little paint you can’t tell i had even shot! This AR500 stuff is BRUTALLY tough. If i run my thumb across i can feel the slightest mark, But definitely not dented. These little bullets traveling much faster would be harder on this Steel plate than the Big heavy weights moving slower.

 

[52Bore]

I might end up sending this Mold to Eric and having him take the Bevel out of it. Hey 52bore, can you do something like this?

It will take longer to dial indicate the mold in the lathe, than cut out the bevel. Send it of you'd like.

 

[Idaholewis]

I might end up sending this Mold to Eric and having him take the Bevel out of it. Hey 52bore, can you do something like this?

It will take longer to dial indicate the mold in the lathe, than cut out the bevel. Send it of you'd like.

Thank you Rick! I have another little 250 Grain Flat base (Non Bevel) Bullet to try in this Rifle, if it shoots good i would REALLY like to have the Bevel taken out of this one. I hate to give up on this little bullet, I really like the Weight, And the Wider Meplat. In your Opinion, Do you think removing the Bevel will make any difference?

One thing that keeps going through my head is my conversation with Lee Shavers about Bullets for my 18 Twist Long Range Rifle, Lee told me not to worry about the Nose profile, Elliptical, Money, Prolate, etc. Were all fine, The 1 thing that Shaver’s stressed to me, was to Pay VERY CLOSE attention to my bullet bases, Make sure they are Nice N Sharp, If i seen any Rounded edges to toss them back. Lee intentionally Beat the Heck out of the Nose of Some Bullets and tested them at 1,000 yards alongside Perfect Shaped ones, Lee Told me The Beat up Noses Flew Right with the Perfect ones, Accuracy is not in the Nose, Its in the Base. Going from Lee’s Advise it seems very plausible that a Bevel base could cause problems in a Rifle?

This little bullet was obviously designed for a Pistol, and likely no more than 1,000 FPS if that. And probably 25 Yards, to maybe 50 Yards Max, And I’m sure shoots Great for it’s intended purpose, This particular bullet is referred to as a Good one by several Pistol shooters. I stil think it can Run in my 30 Twist Rifle, But I don’t think the Bevel Base is helping any?

 

[52Bore]

I might end up sending this Mold to Eric and having him take the Bevel out of it. Hey 52bore, can you do something like this?

It will take longer to dial indicate the mold in the lathe, than cut out the bevel. Send it of you'd like.

In your Opinion, Do you think removing the Bevel will make any difference?

Pay VERY CLOSE attention to my bullet bases, Make sure they are Nice N Sharp, If i seen any Rounded edges to toss them back.

I really don't think removing the bevel will make much a difference - you were already using a wad.
Bullet bases have always been more important than the nose.. even written about back in the 1800's.

 

[Idaholewis]

It will take longer to dial indicate the mold in the lathe, than cut out the bevel. Send it of you'd like.

In your Opinion, Do you think removing the Bevel will make any difference?

Pay VERY CLOSE attention to my bullet bases, Make sure they are Nice N Sharp, If i seen any Rounded edges to toss them back.

I really don't think removing the bevel will make much a difference - you were already using a wad.
Bullet bases have always been more important than the nose.. even written about back in the 1800's.

Rick, I have my Doubts it would make much difference either? This 1 will end up with a Pistol Shooter :yeah: