New .50 Cal Accurate Mold

[Idaholewis]

I get a kick out of the end of his Video where he says “Apparently the .600 Can Not Out penetrate the .500, But As a stopping Rifle it is “SOMEWHAT” superior” What does he mean by Somewhat? Guess that 7-8 inches of extra penetration in Packed phone books doesn’t account for anything? :lol:

 

[long shot]

what you are saying is only true to a point. If what you say is a fact all the way around everyone would be shooting tiny bullets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Idaholewis]

what you are saying is only true to a point

You are Correct!!!! Ballistics is something i have played around with since i was 14-15 yrs old. For instance the little .223 that i spoke of earlier, At 400 Yards with that little 40 Grain bullet it barely has enough energy left to Get itself through a Wet Paper Bag I know this From hands on experience, I owned a .22-250 (Hopped Up .223) and handloaded for it several years, With a 40 Grain Nosler ballistic tip bullet i was getting 4,100+ FPS Muzzle Velocity, It was DEADLY out to 300 Yards, But at 400 Yards it took a GIANT POOP! I hit several Gallon jugs of Water and Recovered a few of the Bullets stil inside the Jug, With Nothing more than the little plastic tip broken off, The little bullet didn’t have enough energy left to get through the 1 Gallon Jug of Water. But a 55 Grain bullet will explode it! There is a fine line here

Now take that 500+ Grain bullet and send it to a Gallon Jug of Water at 400 Yards, The Big Bullet will blow through it like it wasn’t even there :yeah:

My point was, and stil is, The Smaller 300 Grain bullet traveling much faster will Out penetrate the Bigger heavier Bullet within its effective Range

 

[52Bore]

I'd like to see a test with both bullets being the same diameter.
In the video, the .600 is nearly 20% larger in diameter than the .500.
Using the same bullet composition - like pure lead, 20:1 allow, WW, or what ever as long as they are the same.
Maybe when it cools, I'll do a similar test with 45 solids - 350gr vs 530gr. Shoot both with 85gr Swiss 2F and chrono each..

 

[Idaholewis]

I'd like to see a test with both bullets being the same diameter.
In the video, the .600 is nearly 20% larger in diameter than the .500.
Using the same bullet composition - like pure lead, 20:1 allow, WW, or what ever as long as they are the same.
Maybe when it cools, I'll do a similar test with 45 solids - 350gr vs 530gr. Shoot both with 85gr Swiss 2F and chrono each..

That would be the correct way to test it. Make everything as close as you possibly can. Use the Same rifle, Bullets of the Same Alloy, And Same Powder Charge. The Trickiest part will be the exact same Test medium, Phone books bound together looked good to me. Water Jugs are a poor Choice in my opinion, A bullet can start to Yaw and exit the Test

 

[Idaholewis]

I'd like to see a test with both bullets being the same diameter.
In the video, the .600 is nearly 20% larger in diameter than the .500.
Using the same bullet composition - like pure lead, 20:1 allow, WW, or what ever as long as they are the same.
Maybe when it cools, I'll do a similar test with 45 solids - 350gr vs 530gr. Shoot both with 85gr Swiss 2F and chrono each..

Rick, There is no doubt that bullet Diameter effected this test, it only makes sense that it would. If in fact both Rifles in his test were indeed traveling 2,000 FPS, That is The ONLY reason the .600 Overkill looked as good as it did, It stil came up 7-8” Short of the .500 Express. Now Just imagine what it would have had done if both were the identical powder charge and the 900 Grain Woodleigh bullet from the .600 OK would have been traveling much slower? It would have been lucky to get through 10-12” of Phone book

 

[runNgun]

light vs heavy bullet

I hunted wild boar while I was stationed in Turkey. The experienced hunters didn't want us shooting boar with anything else but shotgun slugs. The idea was that a magnum rifle could shoot it through and through and kill it but if it stayed on it's feet, a dying charging boar could rip your legs from ankle to groin and then fall over dead...it happened! A 12 ga shotgun slug would knock a boar off it's feet. I wonder if a 650gr bullet has a better chance of taking down an elk vs a 350gr bullet? I thought that may have been what that guy in the video was talking about. Just a thought.

 

[long shot]

I saw what a 650 grn PP bullet would do to a yearling doe. Knight .50 cal. 24 twist , 105 grns. swiss 1.5 300 yds.

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: light vs heavy bulle

I hunted wild boar while I was stationed in Turkey. The experienced hunters didn't want us shooting boar with anything else but shotgun slugs. The idea was that a magnum rifle could shoot it through and through and kill it but if it stayed on it's feet, a dying charging boar could rip your legs from ankle to groin and then fall over dead...it happened! A 12 ga shotgun slug would knock a boar off it's feet. I wonder if a 650gr bullet has a better chance of taking down an elk vs a 350gr bullet? I thought that may have been what that guy in the video was talking about. Just a thought.

I agree, The TKO Factor of the Big Heavy weight bullets can NOT be disputed. But think about a 350 Grain Bullet, Is there anything Small about a 350 Grain chunk of Lead? A 1 ounce 12 Gauge Shotgun Slug weighs in at 437.5 Grains And Velocity looks to be around 1500 FPS, This is VERY Similar to our .50 and .54 Cal Muzzleloaders with Equal weight bullets. These BIG slow bullets have DEVASTATING knockdown power.

I shot a Deer last year with my .50 Cal Muzzleloader and 450 Grain Paper Patched bullet, I hit her right behind the Front Shoulder Through both Lungs, I don’t think she made it 20 yards? And the Bloodtrail was nothing like I’ve ever seen, I actually walked around the Brush to keep from getting it on my Pant legs, What an IMPRESSIVE sight!! I have seen deer hit with “HOTROD” Magnum Rifles Go like the wind for 100 or more yards before piling up, and some didn’t bleed hardly any. A slow Heavy Bullet Dumps it’s energy in the Body Cavity, Where the “HOTROD” Magnums with Premium bullets ZIP a hole right Through. In my experience The Bigger the Body Cavity (Elk, Moose) The better the Hotrod Magnums perform, The bullet has time to Slow down and “Dump” it’s energy. I personally feel that the super fast “premium” Bonded type bullets from the Super fast Hotrod Magnums are “To good” of a thing on Deer size game, They ZIP through and sometimes leave VERY little to no blood. I have seen it first hand with my .257 Weatherby. I prefer my 7MM-08, or .308 with Heavier bullets. Shoulder shots, and NON Premium bullets are a Different Ball Game!! I was always taught to shoot behind the Front shoulder, As We like to eat what we shoot :yeah:

 

[sabotloader]

Re: light vs heavy bullet

I hunted wild boar while I was stationed in Turkey. The experienced hunters didn't want us shooting boar with anything else but shotgun slugs. The idea was that a magnum rifle could shoot it through and through and kill it but if it stayed on it's feet, a dying charging boar could rip your legs from ankle to groin and then fall over dead...it happened! A 12 ga shotgun slug would knock a boar off it's feet. I wonder if a 650gr bullet has a better chance of taking down an elk vs a 350gr bullet? I thought that may have been what that guy in the video was talking about. Just a thought.

From my perspective... it really is not as much about the weight of the projectile as it is the 'Terminal Performance' of the bullet you choose to shoot...

Another thought that should be understood - most think a heavier bullet will carry more energy to the target - and that can be true but take this in account.... Double the velocity that you are shooting the bullet - 'quadruple's the energy ' the bullet carries. In this case there really is a limitation as to what velocity you can shoot a 650 grain lead bullet and yet can can shoot a 375 grain bullet at a much grater velocity than the 650, certainly you can not double the velocity but you can generate a greater velocity and greater energy.

So in my world it really comes back to the 'Terminal Performance' of the bullet when each bullet is shot in the same place for the harvest.

Compare these two bullets ballistics - A 460 grain Bull Shop to a 247 grain Lehigh. Also compare the flight times

Just my thoughts...

 

[runNgun]

So sabotloader and idaholewis, what is your "perfect" load for shooting deer? Elk? Since I am just getting started, where should I be headed for the "perfect" load for my Bighorn 50 cal.? I was always a "lighter load for more distance" elk hunter with my 54 cal Renegade vs my brother who shot the heavy Maxiball from the same firearm. We both shot a lot of elk.

 

[Idaholewis]

So sabotloader and idaholewis, what is your "perfect" load for shooting deer? Elk? Since I am just getting started, where should I be headed for the "perfect" load for my Bighorn 50 cal.? I was always a "lighter load for more distance" elk hunter with my 54 cal Renegade vs my brother who shot the heavy Maxiball from the same firearm. We both shot a lot of elk.

I like a BIG Lead Bullet (450-500 Grain Range) with a Decent Sized Meplat that is proven to shoot well in my Rifle, Be it Paper Patched, Or Grease Groove, 1300-1400 FPS or close there abouts is where most of my Rifles seem to shoot their best (My Old Stainless GM .50 was the only exception to that, The faster the better it seemed to shoot) If using Real Blackpowder like this Swiss that i use, about 85-95 Weight Grains will get you there. I use an 1/8” Oxyoke brand Wool felt OP Wad Between the Bullet and powder, Wool OP Wad Especially if it’s a Grease Groove, Possibly a .060 Vege Fibre Wad If it’s a Paper Patched bullet

 

[sabotloader]

So sabotloader and idaholewis, what is your "perfect" load for shooting deer? Elk? Since I am just getting started, where should I be headed for the "perfect" load for my Bighorn 50 cal.? I was always a "lighter load for more distance" elk hunter with my 54 cal Renegade vs my brother who shot the heavy Maxiball from the same firearm. We both shot a lot of elk.

My favorite load I really can not use in Idaho during ML season! Our regulations require full bore lead and I am not a fan of lead at all!!! But for elk and even whitetail her in Idaho I am shooting 90 grains of T7, with a shot card and a .503x460 grain Bull Shop. The Bull Shop does a really good job of staying together and not leavig lead fragments in the animal. Since we also need to use a percussion cap I use the RWS Dynamit Noble 1075+. This is really for me a great combination - O and open sights.

Now during rifle season everything changes, I go to a scoped inline shooting 209's 120 grains of BH or T7 with the Lehigh .452x265 CF HP - again for both deer and an elk. The only bad part if I am using T7 - I can only get 3-4 shots before I have to run a patch. The good part about shooting with percussion caps patching between shots is not necessary.

Are you in Idaho? if you aren't there is some awful good bullets out there that offere great 'Terminal Performance

 

[Idaholewis]

My favorite load I really can not use in Idaho during ML season! Our regulations require full bore lead and I am not a fan of lead at all!!!

Mike, You mind elaborating on why you don’t like lead? No argument meant! I’m just curious as to why? I personally can’t think of a Better Hunting Projectile, Especially in these Muzzleloaders.

 

[sabotloader]

My favorite load I really can not use in Idaho during ML season! Our regulations require full bore lead and I am not a fan of lead at all!!!

Mike, You mind elaborating on why you don’t like lead? No argument meant! I’m just curious as to why? I personally can’t think of a Better Hunting Projectile, Especially in these Muzzleloaders.

Just I much prefer a non-lead projectile. Really do not like the environmental problems with lead at all. There is a reason that lead is not used in todays modern bullet manufacture. For myself I am much more interested in a faster lighter bullet with better 'Terminal Ballistics"

 

[toytruck]

Of all the deer I have killed with pure lead I only recovered two bullets. One was a Hornady Great Plains the other a Bullshop conical an both were flattened out to size of a quarter or more. I doubt those big lead bullets fragment (an if they do I can't see a bird eating it-too big) so I'm sticking with what works for me!

Now smaller faster lead bullets in modern firearms might be another story....

 

[sabotloader]

Of all the deer I have killed with pure lead I only recovered two bullets. One was a Hornady Great Plains the other a Bullshop conical an both were flattened out to size of a quarter or more. I doubt those big lead bullets fragment (an if they do I can't see a bird eating it-too big) so I'm sticking with what works for me!

Now smaller faster lead bullets in modern firearms might be another story....

Not a problem for me - shoot what works for you - that is important...

I use the full bore lead because it is required here in Idaho - the only state with such a requirement anymore - but I use a muzzleloader for hunting full time now. So during the regular rifle seasons shooting modern projectiles - I have seen the the difference in Terminal Ballistics first hand between the two types of bullets.

But - then again I drive a Ford can not stand a Chev...

 

[edmehlig]

But - then again I drive a Ford can not stand a Chev...

:lol:

 

[runNgun]

sabotloader, using the Barnes ballistic chart for the .503x460, at what range does this bullet loose it's penetration ability on a deer? Elk? 125yds?

 

[sabotloader]

sabotloader, using the Barnes ballistic chart for the .503x460, at what range does this bullet loose it's penetration ability on a deer? Elk? 125yds?

O know it will work very effectively way beyond that... the general perception is 900 lbs of energy is needed to humanely harvest and elk...