New Chrony Options

[WP79Vet]

I got some speculating for you , how about me shooting long (700yds) with the Sharps and it's 45/70 with a PP 530 gr Eliptical /20-1 with an over powder (poly) wad along with a coffee filter (wad?) over the primer . When I shoot mos times it gives accurate readings (BUT) every so often I get a error reading and suspect it is the poly wad cause the paper patch comes off with in 15 ft and I consistently get a couple of errors out of 50-60 shots shooting Fridays , I punch them out with a 45 cal hole punch 1/8 inch thick so I imagine you could pick up some sabot flite !

What kind of chrony are you using? Optical or radar?

 

[WP79Vet]

I also want one. Have you shot a load with a sabot? Does the sabot show up or interfere?

Maybe one way to answer questions about sabot/wad interference is to call up the company, get in touch with a technical rep, and see what they have to say.....

 

[rporter]

i imagine opticals will get hard to give away, soon,

my old labradar had trouble picking up saboted loads maybe half the time. but when it did it was nice to see 100yd velocity and muzzle velocity.
it never had trouble with centerfire ammo. even with shooters with in 6 ft on each side. truthfully i did not understand those that had troubles with it.

 

[Garbler]

I’ve had an old Oehler 35P since the late 80’s other than some new screen plastic never a problem. So I’m sure not saying this old three screen tripodEd, cabled up, line it up, fingers crossed unit will compare to radar units but it’s been dependable, accurate and incredible service. There are going to be some great deals around the corner on these chronographs.

Just a little spitballing here but years ago when I was a total experimental loading addict I only brought the chronograph out maybe 2-3 times a week at my neighborhood club and range. This was a time in my life where I worked offshore 8-10 months and home 2-3. But my point is once I got my velocity and spread dialed in with my preferred bullet it was all about grouping no instruments needed. Fact is when the club members knew I had my rig set up they almost lined up to shoot a few gratis. So I guess I’m saying unless you need a chronograph a lot I’d bet you can always grab a few freebies at the range.

I never could understand why anybody would spend serious money ( to me ) on this kind of equipment with just two or three cartridges to work with. Targets at 100, 200 & 300 yards if you can get, and reload manuals will give enough info plus all the ballistic tables out there on your bullet‘s flight plan. You can figure to 800 yds if you want but a couple of stiff wind puffs will cancel that. However there is the cool factor and fun equation so there is no accounting. Didn’t say they weren’t fun.
Rick

 

[WP79Vet]

I got some speculating for you , how about me shooting long (700yds) with the Sharps and it's 45/70 with a PP 530 gr Eliptical /20-1 with an over powder (poly) wad along with a coffee filter (wad?) over the primer . When I shoot mos times it gives accurate readings (BUT) every so often I get a error reading and suspect it is the poly wad cause the paper patch comes off with in 15 ft and I consistently get a couple of errors out of 50-60 shots shooting Fridays , I punch them out with a 45 cal hole punch 1/8 inch thick so I imagine you could pick up some sabot flite !

If you're asking why your MagnetoSpeed V3 gives you occasional errors, I'd be very surprised if it's due to wads or sabots, because those are not magnetic materials, and they don't produce any kind of electric current (every moving electric charge produces a magnetic field). So... unless you're using wads that have some kind of metal in them, I can't think of any way that wads or sabots might intereact with the magnetic sensors (most likely "Hall Effect" sensors) which are the heart of your chrony.

The one possible source of interference that I can think of is that hot powder gases streaming past the magnetic sensors probably contain lots of molecules and atoms that are electrically charged, and moving electric charges produce magnetic fields, so the hot gas stream will intereact with your magnetic sensors. Because the distribution of charged particles within the stream is probably at least somewhat different on every shot, it seems possible that every now and then the resulting gas stream magnetic fields will interfere with the magnetic field disturbance produced by the bullet, and generate an error.

EVERY sensor system of EVERY kind is also subject to noise of many kinds in its detectors, in its signal processing electronics, and in its operating environment. The hiss you hear in a stereo system when no record or tape or CD is playing is an example of noise in signal processing electronics. The flickering of fluorescent or LED lights is an example of operating environment noise that affects optical chronys. Errors in something like the chronys we're discussing here are often caused by noise of some kind. The ratio of signal strength (the magnitude of the detectable physical effect produced by a bullet as it flies downrange) to the sum of all the noise in the operating environment and detection system often determines the rate of errors and the limits of sensitivity. All of the detectable physical effects for the chronys we're discussing in this thread are pretty small (the shadow of a bullet crossing a photocell, the radio-frequency electromagnetic waves reflected from the base of a rifle bullet, the magnetic field disturbance caused by a bullet passing an inch or so from a Hall effect magnetic sensor), so I'm guessing that all of these chronys operate with small signal to noise ratios, and are therefore subject to at least occasional errors which don't seem to have any identifiable cause.

 

[eekjellander]

If you're asking why your MagnetoSpeed V3 gives you occasional errors, I'd be very surprised if it's due to wads or sabots, because those are not magnetic materials, and they don't produce any kind of electric current (every moving electric charge produces a magnetic field). So... unless you're using wads that have some kind of metal in them, I can't think of any way that wads or sabots might intereact with the magnetic sensors (most likely "Hall Effect" sensors) which are the heart of your chrony.

The one possible source of interference that I can think of is that hot powder gases streaming past the magnetic sensors probably contain lots of molecules and atoms that are electrically charged, and moving electric charges produce magnetic fields, so the hot gas stream will intereact with your magnetic sensors. Because the distribution of charged particles within the stream is probably at least somewhat different on every shot, it seems possible that every now and then the resulting gas stream magnetic fields will interfere with the magnetic field disturbance produced by the bullet, and generate an error.

EVERY sensor system of EVERY kind is also subject to noise of many kinds in its detectors, in its signal processing electronics, and in its operating environment. The hiss you hear in a stereo system when no record or tape or CD is playing is an example of noise in signal processing electronics. The flickering of fluorescent or LED lights is an example of operating environment noise that affects optical chronys. Errors in something like the chronys we're discussing here are often caused by noise of some kind. The ratio of signal strength (the magnitude of the detectable physical effect produced by a bullet as it flies downrange) to the sum of all the noise in the operating environment and detection system often determines the rate of errors and the limits of sensitivity. All of the detectable physical effects for the chronys we're discussing in this thread are pretty small (the shadow of a bullet crossing a photocell, the radio-frequency electromagnetic waves reflected from the base of a rifle bullet, the magnetic field disturbance caused by a bullet passing an inch or so from a Hall effect magnetic sensor), so I'm guessing that all of these chronys operate with small signal to noise ratios, and are therefore subject to at least occasional errors which don't seem to have any identifiable cause.

Sense this is attached to the barrel I 'm sure there's noise involved but the 95% works is ok with me , and if it shows error I just redo the group .I'm retired so no big deal as long ads my range book has numbers I can get an idea on FPS /SD s I'm good and like I said it's paid for /Thanks again for the info on Chronos ,I thought it was good lesson /Ed

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

I wonder if that neat little Garmin is going to pick up the plastic as it Shucks off of the bullet

I found out sabots can go anywhere when they exit the muzzle. The display screen of one of my chronographs was broken when a sabot hit it. I put a piece of polycarbonate over the next one. The same thing could happen to any of these devices that use newer technologies. It might be a good idea to put a piece of polycarbonate between the muzzle and the device when shooting sabots.

 

[Ninering62]

I found out sabots can go anywhere when they exit the muzzle. The display screen of one of my chronographs was broken when a sabot hit it. I put a piece of polycarbonate over the next one. The same thing could happen to any of these devices that use newer technologies. It might be a good idea to put a piece of polycarbonate between the muzzle and the device when shooting sabots.

Anonymouscowherd will tell you that I need Kevlar or an armor steel plate in front of my chronys. I can’t really argue with him either.

 

[ElDiablo]

I found out sabots can go anywhere when they exit the muzzle. The display screen of one of my chronographs was broken when a sabot hit it. I put a piece of polycarbonate over the next one. The same thing could happen to any of these devices that use newer technologies. It might be a good idea to put a piece of polycarbonate between the muzzle and the device when shooting sabots.

These radar units sit behind the muzzle.

 

[Wilyote1]

Wow, I have an old Chrony that works great. Paid less than $100.00

I shot my old Chrony and they accepted it as a trade in for a new model quite a few years back. My newer Chrony lacks the bells and whistles but it's still working.

 

[snapbang]

I shot my old Chrony

Yep, I did too. Trying to free hand it.

 

[Hanshi]

I should have known better but I still got caught off guard at the explosion of technology used in chronographs. From the old printed paper ones that had to break the little wires so you could go to a chart and calculate - These were the first I remember - to radar. Considering inflation the prices of the new ones aren't as bad as it first appears.

I still have the Oehler I bought over 27 years ago, it still works and has seen a lot of use. IMHO many of us dinosaurs will keep what we already have until we wear them out. At that point some of us may forego that new rifle and instead put that money toward that space-age chrony. Wonder what's next?

 

[snapbang]

I only used mine a few times in life. Mostly for my 338 Win Mag and my 35 Whelen. Those are my elk rifles and I always want the most when I go elk hunting. Ive been 6 times in life and likely no more. I have to admit I loaded them to the max. Maybe a hair more. At least with powders from years ago. FYI I only saw pressure signs once in my years of reloading. That was my Whelen. An Interarms mark X action in 270 Win. that had been bored out to to the 35. I settled on a load that pushed a 250 grain Barnes X bullet (the old style ones) just over 2700 FPS. No signs of pressure but I didnt continuously shoot the rifle either. I worked up the load for accuracy and shot it to confirm before going hunting. One more grain of powder and the primer pockets started to get loose.

Mostly it gathers dust now. I have no need to know the exact velocity of my loads. If they are accurate thats good enough. I dont shoot at the ranges I used to years ago. Most of what I shoot will be within 150 yards.

 

[Decay]

I'll sell my old Oehler so I could buy a new Garmin. But I won't give it away

 

[WP79Vet]

I bought a Shooting Chrony a long time ago, way back when they first came out. Can't remember exactly when that was, but I'm thinking early 90s. It gave me lots of errors until I bought the "sky screens" and light kit for it. The screens were pieces of translucent plastic suspended over the sensors on little rods, and the light kit consisted of two big incandescent lamps that had to be plugged in. With the sky screens to block some of the background interference, and the light kit to boost signal levels, the Shooting Chrony was fairly reliable. I used it mostly for archery, but also shot some center fire loads over it.

In about 2017 my Shooting Chrony died, and I bought a Caldwell Ballistics chrony. Once again, I got lots of errors until I built a little enclosure consisting mostly of a roof across the top to block out interfering light, and then bought the battery - powered LED light kit that Caldwell sells and mounted it on my enclosure to boost signal. The chrony + enclosure can be mounted on a tripod, which makes it easy to adjust, but the whole setup is a bit awkward to store, and to move around. Nevertheless, it's fairly reliable now, although I still get an error every now and then. Last fall, when I was shooting my Renegade through it, I discovered that I get a lot less errors if I position the Caldwell about 20 feet in front of me. I'm guessing that if the chrony is closer than 20 feet, muzzle flash interferes with its ability to pick up the decrease in light entering the sensors when the bullet passes over them. The instructions say that the chrony has to be AT LEAST 15 feet from the muzzle, so being closer than that is apparently a known source of interference.

The new-generation radar chronys look a lot easier to use, and it would be cool to see velocity as a function of distance downrange. As these things proliferate, I'm guessing that they will keep the ballistic coefficient numbers published by the bullet companies a little more honest.

Not sure I can justify dropping $600 on a new chrony when the one I have works pretty well, but I find a chrony + Quickload+ my collection of the manuals to be really useful for load development, and I have lots of load development projects planned. l'll be reading user reports on the new radar chronys with great interest....!

 

[rporter]

it will be an interesting ride for the next few years to see where the compact models go, as far as price.

certainly anyone wanting a radar cronograph will be able to get a first generation labradar for cheap. likely under 300 bucks when this shakes out.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

I'll sell my old Oehler so I could buy a new Garmin. But I won't give it away

How old is your Oehler chronograph? I got my Oehler 35P in 1987. My chronograph is still going strong. I did replaced the ink wheel a few years ago. That wheel is good for 30,000 lines.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

I shot my old Chrony and they accepted it as a trade in for a new model quite a few years back. My newer Chrony lacks the bells and whistles but it's still working.

I shoot on a private range. One day a shooter hit his chronograph. We all stood at attention for a minute in honor of the chronograph. Man did that thing go into pieces. I did make post on set up of a Oehler 35P to get the best reading. If I am going to spend time and money on load development, grouping, or of the other accuracy stuff, I want the best and accurate reading from my chronograph.

 

[ElDiablo]

Just spoke with Garmin on the Xero. The support guy said it will not work with “multiple projectiles.” So no-go on saboted bullets (or bullet and wad). I’m thinking a workaround may be to set the radar unit out past where the sabot/wad discards - say 20 feet or so and to the side of the projectile path.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Just spoke with a couple shooters using the new Garmin and shooting with wool wads. Neither that I talked to shoot sabots, others may.

THE WOOL WADS DO NOT AFFECT THE UNITS ACCORDING TO THOSE OWNERS/SHOOTERS.

JUST RECEIVED WORD FROM ANOTHER OWNER/SHOOTER WHO IS SHOOTING SABOTS AND THE UNITS WORK PERFECTLY WITH SABOTS.