Newbie In Need of Help Please

[Hornet22savage]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Years ago before NY legalized rifle in my area, I set up my 50 for 300 yds. My bullet of choice was the Hornady .430 265 gr. FTX sabot MMP HPH green 120 gr. BH209. Never shot it any further than 200 on paper groups were good.

 

[sabinajiles]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Years ago before NY legalized rifle in my area, I set up my 50 for 300 yds. My bullet of choice was the Hornady .430 265 gr. FTX sabot MMP HPH green 120 gr. BH209. Never shot it any further than 200 on paper groups were good.

I have found the 265 gn FTX to be one of the most accurate bullets I have shot from my Accura rifles. I used one to take a large mature doe last season on a quartering away shot at 95 yds, using 100 gn BH209. It dropped her dead in her tracks and her lungs were turned to jello. I figured the he bullet with 120 gn BH209 would be around 2000 fps muzzle velocity, maybe a bit higher. Running the numbers shows that at 200 yds it would be at 1400 fps and 1150 ft/lbs of energy and at 300 it would be down to 1200 fps and 830 ft/lbs. I haven't shot it at 200-300 yds but with the accuracy I've seen to 150 yds, I believe it would be accurate. Would there be enough velocity to expand at 200-300 yds? I don't know. I would take the 200 yd shot but think I would pass on the 300.

 

[rangerod]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Out of my Knight Vision which I believe to be a somewhat underrated gun the 265 grn FTX is extremely accurate out to 150 yds.

 

[Timberelk]

So I'm curious guys, why I need a 50 cal bullet to expand much? When I shoot my 270 win or 300 mag out to 400/500 yards, it certainly doesn't expand to the diameters of a 50 cal yet it drops deer and elk in their tracks. Don't mean to start a debate but personally if my 50 cal bullet doesn't expand at all and goes through the deer all the way and I don't recover it, it is my fault for poor shot placement. Not the bullet's fault for not expanding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ronlaughlin]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

The energy to expand the bullet comes from the powder. The force to expand the bullet comes from the flesh of the animal. This force to expand the bullet damages the flesh. An expanding bullet results in more damage than a non-expanding bullet, no matter the size. The animal is damaged more when it expands the bullet.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Your 270 kills by shock. Completely different

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Here is a good read on the topic of bullet cavitaion and its not uncommon for a 180gr 308cal bullet to expand to over 50cal. Main difference is that bullet is moving WAY faster than your 45cal bullet load. Tissue displacement is intense....Speed kills!! At 300 yards a 180gr 300 Win mag is still in the 2300-2400fps range or more. Yours is down below 1200fps with less than half as much fpe left also.

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ball ... thods.html

 

[sawtoothscream]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

hmm never new they had two different 300gr xtp. regular and mag

I used the mag last year and i think my shot was around 60 yds with great results. Sounds like the regular XTP is the way to go though for muzzle loaders.

anyways, already decided i wanted to try barnes this year and have 290gr spitfire t-ez on the way XTP will be fine for the range to use the 777 powder i have sitting around since i went BH.

Just hoping they work well in the accura mr as they are not cheap

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Wow a lot of variables. From the groups tho spread way too much. I would suggest the following.
1. Check the scope mounts and rings. if that is all good, but highly suspect.
2. Check you bullets, powder charge consistent if using pellets the charge will not be consistent if they crush, I'd not use pellets but lose powder 777 or Black Horn 209 , Check that the loading jag is not deforming bullet.
3. Bullet is fully seated against the charge.
4. Use shot gun mag primers ( 209 CCI Mag, Federal 209A,) Do not use these so called primers for InLine MZL. The primer pressure can and will make shots inconsistent.
5. If you use BH 209 you won't have to clean between shots. BH 209 requires the mentioned primers for proper ignition others are not hot enough.
6. ALWAYS consider your own ability when shooting.
7. Best bullet to set up an inline is the Hornady 250 grain SST easy load. Least expensive, plus a very very good hunting bullet, Deer, hogs,bear, Elk any big game.
Lots to consider. Hope this helps. I'd stat with the scope and mount system, them powder, primers,bullets. Your loading procedure MUST be very consistent.
Bear Killer ( Lee )

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

7. Best bullet to set up an inline is the Hornady 250 grain SST easy load. Least expensive, plus a very very good hunting bullet, Deer, hogs,bear, Elk any big game.

Sorry but sabot selection is too critical to make that claim. At only about .501 loaded OD max it would literally fall down some bores. As far as cost, i can direct you to bonded bullets for 88cents a piece that will blow away a 250gr SST no matter how you slice it.

This bad boy was hit with the 275gr bullet made by Fury at over 270 yards away. Granted it was at much higher MV than a smoker can achieve. At smoker speeds the regular Fury (not bonded) for only 72cent each is probably plenty tough.

 

[twild]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Nice Lope!

 

[52Bore]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Here is a good read on the topic of bullet cavitaion and its not uncommon for a 180gr 308cal bullet to expand to over 50cal. Main difference is that bullet is moving WAY faster than your 45cal bullet load. Tissue displacement is intense....Speed kills!! At 300 yards a 180gr 300 Win mag is still in the 2300-2400fps range or more. Yours is down below 1200fps with less than half as much fpe left also.

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ball ... thods.html

Although a little hard to follow, I found some things interesting and toward the end some data that might help Timberelk - although a 30-06 data and not .308.


Hope you can see it, you may have to click on the photo for it to appear larger..

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I know I am going to get some backwash over this but here it goes.
First get away from PELLETS. I know there are a lot of guys that use them because they are easy to use, I got it. However they are INCONSISTENT. Here why if you reload center fire you know that the most accurate bullets are those that crush fit. So think of your muzzle loader as a bullet case, after all that is exactly what it is. The barrel is nothing more. I shot 3" groups with pellets knowing the gun ( Thompson Center Pro Hunter). I saw at the Range one day a friend same gun at 100 yds shooting a group of 5 shots ALL within 1/4 inch of the other and most cutting holes. So I GOT SOME 777 and inside of 10 shot groups of 5 charge 100 - 80 grains I went from 3" groups to sub MOA ( single Hole ) at 100 yards. I later got into Black Horn 209 and began to shoot groups at 100 yards that was covered with a quarter. Why because pellets are inconsistent and they are because when you load them they may or may not crush. Lose powder is consistent and especially Black Horn ( Now that's All I load). I'm 75 and have a business in teaching hunters men and women how to use muzzle loaders Side Lock and Inline. With the advent of inline and the creation of bullets now designed for inline rifles the variables are huge. Bullets, PRIMERS!,powders, and SABOTS!. The best barrels are the barrels made in Spain.

Maybe I will write some articles about the variables with the New Inline Muzzle Loaders. This time of year going in to Big Game season I have anywhere
from 10 to 15 students a week and growing.
I need to checkout how to attach pictures on this site.

Till Next time
Bear Killer ( Lee)

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I know I am going to get some backwash over this but here it goes.
First get away from PELLETS. I know there are a lot of guys that use them because they are easy to use, I got it. However they are INCONSISTENT. Here why if you reload center fire you know that the most accurate bullets are those that crush fit. So think of your muzzle loader as a bullet case, after all that is exactly what it is. The barrel is nothing more. I shot 3" groups with pellets knowing the gun ( Thompson Center Pro Hunter). I saw at the Range one day a friend same gun at 100 yds shooting a group of 5 shots ALL within 1/4 inch of the other and most cutting holes. So I GOT SOME 777 and inside of 10 shot groups of 5 charge 100 - 80 grains I went from 3" groups to sub MOA ( single Hole ) at 100 yards. I later got into Black Horn 209 and began to shoot groups at 100 yards that was covered with a quarter. Why because pellets are inconsistent and they are because when you load them they may or may not crush. Lose powder is consistent and especially Black Horn ( Now that's All I load). I'm 75 and have a business in teaching hunters men and women how to use muzzle loaders Side Lock and Inline. With the advent of inline and the creation of bullets now designed for inline rifles the variables are huge. Bullets, PRIMERS!,powders, and SABOTS!. The best barrels are the barrels made in Spain.

Maybe I will write some articles about the variables with the New Inline Muzzle Loaders. This time of year going in to Big Game season I have anywhere
from 10 to 15 students a week and growing.
I need to checkout how to attach pictures on this site.

Till Next time
Bear Killer ( Lee)

Pellet burning rifle:

https://postimg.org/image/dq4apboq7/

https://postimg.org/image/46ulvv17z/

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

The best barrels are the barrels made in Spain.

How did you come to this conclusion? Ive yet to see one win at Friendship's inline matches. Green Mountain barrel has numerous wins. Wilson, Douglas, Lothar Walther and Pedersoli just to name a few used for production rifles are all upper shelf barrels with a solid proven record of quality.

Today we have customs using Brux, Shilen, Pacnor, Rock Creek and McGowen barrels for the enthusiasts. You can even buy the Brux and IIRC a Pacnor ML barrel for your Pro Hunter if you have deep pockets.

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

The top CVA rifles have Spanish made and are machine lapped ( Bargara Barrels ). The assisted designer is Bob Schelling ( if I spelled his name correctly) . Bob is a world noted barrel maker. Known for long range barrels. Not doubting what you said but the best gun in the world isn't worth 2 cents if you can't shoot. A good gun doesn't make a good shooter. 3" groups at 100 yards isn't a good group from a shooting station. That 3" in the hunting world translates to 4 or 5". Don't know many that carry a shooting table with. Yea I know about shooting sticks. You always want the gun totally as accurate as possible. Something goes wrong it's the shooter not the gun. By the way there are a lot of unknown variables in your statement. Care to define how, what when, where so to speak. By the way I find this kinda of interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HX872ctwXI

Have a good day
Bear Hunter

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Shawn T is correct about the scope. Top end TC's are very good rifles, but, the CVA I believes come with a scope or you can get it with scope mounted and I believe Bore sighted (?????). Top end CVA's guarantee 1" MOA @ 100 yards out of the box. I believe the one you are talking about has the Spanish made barrels. ( Bargara ). I have 3 CVA's and they all shoot sub MOA @ 100,200 and 300 yards from the bench. In the field they shoot extremely accurate from a sitting position. Also if the group is moving I would guess also either there is a mount issue or parallax. You won't go wrong with a CVA V2 either. As a "suggestion" if you get the CVA I'd start with either 777 lose powder about 90 grains or if you use Black Horn 209 suggest 110 -120 grains. All guns are different so check it out. The Hornady 250 easy loads are very good bullets as are the Barnes yellow tip. They load a little stiff but with the BH 209 there are NO cleaning between shots. Just suggestions hope they may help.

Good Hunting
Bear Killer

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Dang It I knew I misspelled his name. No argument about the barrels. Just stating what I know and what I have used. The brands you mention I wouldn't buy, but that's just me. Not bad rifles just don't like them. Don't like Chevy, or Ford that's why I drive Dodge ?? I hunt with the CVA V2's but especially with my Remington 700 Ultra MZ. Remington also recommends 200 grains of pellets (4) to achieve MOA at 300 yards. I shoot 135 grains of BH 209 by weight and achieve consistent sub MOA at 300 yards and with less recoil exceeding on average 2400 fps .

Bear Killer

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Ed Shilen sold equipment to Bergara. That in itself does not make them even close to the best. Shilen offers some very good barrels but i would take a Brux any day over a Shilen. Bullberry makes some super nice Douglas Premium grade barrels for the Encores for around $650 in SS. You would have a hard time finding a better ML barrel in that price range. A Brux will set you back nearly $900. My Douglas Premium XX hand lapped is one of the least picky barrels ive ever owned

BTW good luck shooting heavy loads of BH209 out of a RUML. Be sure to keep an eye on the brass or you will ruin your breach plug. BH209 is still not a approved powder by Remington.

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Why are you pulling the breech plug so often? Its not necessary to do so that frequently. I've noticed that folks new to inlining tend do so this. While there is no harm per se, its a lot of extra work. Swab from the muzzle, use a rod guide and you won't hurt anything, and pull the plug when you're done for the day.
The Omega is the about the best inline made, I'm partial to the Black Diamonds myself, and are pretty straightforward. My old one gave best results shooting 44 caliber XTP's. Noticeably better than the 45' s my BD dotes on. Best of luck!

Thought you may enjoy this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3AJGOJUgQA
Also if you use the correct cleaning tools you don't need to pull the breech plug. Use regular center fire rifle cleaner for BH 209 ( NOT WATER ) Water works for 777 very well all tho there are better cleaners. Understand CVA also owns Powerbelt bullets so that is what they push. A lot of folks use Powerbelt bullets. The Platinum is a very good bullet.
Bear Killer