Newbie In Need of Help Please

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I have to back up some here........... Keeping an eye on this one :huh?:

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Boy did I mess Ed Shilen and Bergara Barrels. Called him Bob rayer: Sorry ( ED)
Bear Hunter

 

[HC]

Re: RE: Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I have to back up some here........... Keeping an eye on this one :huh?:

Me too. Im sitting here gritting my teeth , but im staying out of it!

Sent from my ME301T using Tapatalk

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Hey guys if I am saying things not correct or you do it differently please say so. I am saying what I have learn over the years. I don't know it all only what I have learned and taught from others. Many choices out there some good some not so good.....? What ever works is what a person should do, there are ways to improve the capability of the rifle no matter the brand.

Bear Killer

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

This is getting good . So what muzzleloader would you consider is the very best bearkiller ? I'm not being Sarcastic just curious . I have so many in lines it's stupid . As far as a manufactured muzzleloader you will be hard pressed finding anything more accurate AT THE PRESENT TIME than a Knight rifle . Hands down ! If there was something more accurate I would have one . I'm not saying there are plenty of very good and accurate rifles out there but if your after the most accurate muzzleloader it's a Knight with a Green Mountain barrel. Again I'm talking about current manufactured rifles.

This is just my opinion .

 

[Squeeze]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Boy has Knight Changed, appearance and PRICE. Wow, beautiful rifle very pricey . Reading what you get for the price looks very attractive. MOA at 200 out of the box. Competition works wonders. Almost makes me wish I had been aware of knight before I got my Remington about the same price. Likely would have stayed with the Remington I have a Rem 700, 300 Ultra mag Sendaro 2. Great center fire especially for long range. I think the last Knight I had I paid near 200 ish for it.

Question, not trying to be sarcastic what powder do you shoot in yours. Lose or pellets. Remington suggests to get 300 yard MOA you should shoot 4 50 grain pellets ( at 2400 ish fps) just interested. Heck maybe I am missing something.

Bear Killer

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

..............Question, not trying to be sarcastic what powder do you shoot in yours. Lose or pellets. Remington suggests to get 300 yard MOA you should shoot 4 50 grain pellets ( at 2400 ish fps) just interested. Heck maybe I am missing something.

Bear Killer

Remington can suggest it, but backing down does wonders, including felt recoil. Just because the rifle is 200grs capable, doesn't mean that it will shoot the best, or the most accurate using 200grs or 4 pellets. There are a lot of shooters getting less than MOA at 300 with the RU, many of them are shooting 3 - T7M (magnum pellets in the red box) with an H5045LB Harvester sabot and 300gr SST.

Granted, its much easier to tweak a charge with loose propellant with ... most ... rifles. Not all. The Remington Ultimate muzzleloader ignition is designed to shoot pellets the best. Not that it won't shoot loose propellants, but it was designed for pellets. It does it extremely well too. BH209 is NOT an approved propellant by Remington. Not saying it won't ignite and shoot it, just saying there's no place in the Remington manual where it lists BH and an approved substitute.
A good friend was shooting an RU this past weekend with 200gr Shockwaves and 3 pellets and getting outstanding accuracy/groups to 200yds.

If you looked over the couple photos I posted earlier, you'll see a 1.5" 400yd 5 shot group and a 1.783" 3 shot group at 500yds (witnessed/signed).... shooting pellets, frt/rr bag. I agree with Doug, there's no more accurate production muzzleloader made TODAY, than a Knight.

Couldn't help myself artyman:

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Nothing wrong with that RemUML at all especially for the price. A whole market has been created just in aftermarket 45cal barrels for them. Nothing wrong with the newer CVAs either especially at the price point. The new Optima V2 IMO is about the best bang for the buck ive seen.

When it comes to best barrels though, like i said there are some really outstanding options. I do somewhat prefer the Bergara barrel for the Encore if price is a big concern. At one time you could buy them for under $200. Apex ML barrels can still be found for around $150 or less. Thats a lot of barrel for the money. You cant even buy a Pacnor, Brux or Douglas blank for that kinda money and prefits will easily cost you over $400 for actions like Rem or Savage.

Off the shelf mass produced i really like Green Mountain. Both Knight and LHR used them. Im not sure if T/C stayed with GM when they bought LHR. One of the Sharps replicas uses then too since they can no longer get Badgers. GM has been doing what Bergara does to certain barrels for YEARS and they are air gauged.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Max loads of Blackhorn . Knights will do much better than MOA at 200 . I am able to hold .5 MOA out to 500 yards with custom .45 Pittman Aeromax bullets . At 100 yards I can shoot .5 MOA with a variety of bullets . I have not seriously shot much pellitized powder but have seen groups that guys have shot with the Ultimate (original Ultimates ) that were amazing . I shoot competitively along with several others on this board . We take our sport very serious . You would not believe me if I told you the amount of Blackhorn I have shot this summer . My point is if there was a more accurate production rifle made at the present time I along with others would have one . I'm not saying the Remingtons or CVAs are not shooters . I know they are but they can not compete against the fast twist .45 1-20 rifles that Knight makes beyond 300 yards .

With that being said there are many many good accurate hunting rifles that will shoot very well to 200 yards . I'm talking maximum accuracy at long range .

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Nothing you said I disagree with. I know Remington recommends 4 50 grain pellets. BH believe me the BH 209 with 135 grains give consistent less than one inch groups at 300 yards, still working that. Ignition with MG 209 primers no problem. You guys have me wondering about 777 pellets ( red dot) are those mag pellets. On a hunt I'll admit sometime speed in reloading is necessary. My ONLY issue and I'd be interested in your use of pellets, is that and I've seen this happen. If the pellet crushes or doesn't crush have you noticed a difference in impact/ grouping?

Bear Killer

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I wanted to say that what I have discussed is purely from a hunting prospective. I am not a competition shooter, if we had it around here I would be. So I totally accept what you guy say, not my world. I do have a question though. Pellets have you found as I have if they crush the impact is different.

Bear Killer

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Crushed pellet/s dont burn the same as uncrushed. Pressures can increase a great deal when crushed.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

There's no reason to crush pellets, that is if you're paying attention when you're loading.
Shooting pellets is no different than shooting any loose propellant, as a WITNESS MARK is required. If you properly load the rifle, then create your witness mark, then there's no reason to ever crush them. Even when loading for a second shot (at a second animal of course).

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

What you say makes a lot of sense. Most hunters don't think about that, guess that includes me as well. Going to check that out, Triple 7 red dot. That comes from leaning on the charge to compress to insure no delayed ignition. With Black Horn that is not a issue. It's a brick wall at the bottom.
Thanks
Bear Killer

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

What you say makes a lot of sense. Most hunters don't think about that, guess that includes me as well. Going to check that out, Triple 7 red dot. That comes from leaning on the charge to compress to insure no delayed ignition. With Black Horn that is not a issue. It's a brick wall at the bottom.
Thanks
Bear Killer

Triple Seven Magnum pellets come in a RED box and are marked 60grs each. Those who are shooting production rifles, SHOULD NOT shoot 3 - T7M pellets! That will over charge production rifles.

3- T7M pellets should only be used in Remington Ultimate Muzzleloaders, or the Ultimate Firearms Inc. muzzleloaders.

Bullets only need to be seated ... ON ... the pellets securely. Pellets will start to crush/crack at pressures of approximately 40#.
Yes, BH209 is much different. I've measured bullet seating forces that I had when shooting BH and they averaged 106#.

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

Well I did as I said and went to the range. At least a little Crow served up is appropriate. I found with easy load sabots with a witness mark and 2 pellets my CVA V2 I got VERY tight groups. But With the Barns yellow sabot because they load very snug, printing as they load even with a witness mark it was more difficult to replicate the groups. I agree that the lose loading sabots work well. Hunting I see an issue because the hunter may or may not take the time when reloading to use the needed attention to seat the charge and bullet without crushing the pellets. What do you guys think. Again hunting and Long range are two different worlds. It was fun and I learned something. I never had a bad day shooting or hunting.
Bear Killer

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I use to hunt with your same load in a Encore 2 777 pellets . My gun shot very well with a clean bore (cleaning between shots ) my bullets fit tight in the bore on a clean bore . My problem was in a hunting situation I could NOT get the bullet down the bore for a follow up shot . My solution was to load my quick loads with a Powerbelt in equal weight or close . (290 Barnes I used a 300 grain powerbelt) my follow up shot with a Powerbelt would hit 1 inch lower on a dirty barrel follow up shot at 100 yards . I felt that was Adequate for a hunting follow up shot . That was my solution hope it helps.

Also you could try Blackhorn 209 about 75 grains by weight will get you close to your 2 pellet load . Blackhorn you should be able to load your 2nd shot with the same Barnes bullet in a hunting situstion without cleaning

 

[Bear Killer B&C]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I totally understand. In all of my CVA's V2's 130 grains of BH 209 and in my TC Pro Hunter 110 grains of BH 209. I've shot 25-30 times without cleaning while maintaining 1/4" or less groups. In my Remington 700 ML I shoot 135 grains of BH 209. Don't shoot any other apowder. How did you do on your hut well I hope. I'm hoping to get drawn for the AZ 2018 Elk season. I don't hunt bulls rather have a 2 year old Dry Cow for the meat.
Bear Killer

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Newbie In Need of Help Please

I totally understand. In all of my CVA's V2's 130 grains of BH 209 and in my TC Pro Hunter 110 grains of BH 209. I've shot 25-30 times without cleaning while maintaining 1/4" or less groups. In my Remington 700 ML I shoot 135 grains of BH 209. Don't shoot any other apowder. How did you do on your hut well I hope. I'm hoping to get drawn for the AZ 2018 Elk season. I don't hunt bulls rather have a 2 year old Dry Cow for the meat.
Bear Killer

That load exceeds CVA's and Western's load data and if you mean by weight that is WAY WAY over recommended. 120gr by volume/84gr by weight is max!!!