Open letter to CVA Paramount and MRX 1-22 twist rifles

[Harley469]

I had no idea this was an issue with the Paramounts. I wasn't considering one, but I won't be recommending them like this.

 

[LHR]

I’ve never been a fan of the powerbelt design.When they first came out my bil was using them and we noticed how as you pull the plastic skirt off with your hand, they were inconsistent as to the amount of pressure it took to pull them apart. One would be real easy and the next required some force.
When we found skirts that nearly made it to the 100 yard target, and others that were only 35 yards down range, I knew these were not going to work for me.
And now you have this issue with barrels that only like powerbelts?
No thanks CVA, no thanks!

 

[One Inch Group]

I ended up making a loading tip from delrin. Works great, no damage to bullet front. Another thing that happened with this rifle that concerns me. On approximately the third time out shooting I had two primers blow out. They were CCI 200 LR primers with 105 grains by weight of BH 209 and the 275 gr ELR bullet. A sign of over pressure. I removed the breech plug and noticed the thin edged at the end of the breech plug was ballooned out. I was quite surprised. Why over pressure when CVA recommends up to 119 grains of powder. Immediately checking if I had double charged or double bullet, I ruled that out because of several checks and balances. The most important is a witness mark on loading rod and powder Viles counted along with bullets counted. The BH 209 powder has been on the shelf about 8 years. Dont think the powder caused it. A mystery

 

[Mnt monkey]

My breach plug on my Paramount leaked bad down the side, down the thread wall, they sent me a new one it did the same I came to the conclusion that it was the threads in the barrel,, what did the primers look like on your other little modules that you were using did they show any signs of pressure the ones that did not blow did the primer rise up any though at all?,, you are using the little priming modules CVA gave with the rifle I'm assuming veriflame? If you look at the spent primers you saw no evidence at all of pressure until they started blowing?

 

[52Bore]

Remember, they are made overseas…and like Pedersoli, converting Metric to our English shouldn’t be difficult, but sometimes it seems it is… I had many email conversations with Stefano P. over their new Whitworth when the sent me one to test.
If one does the math:
1” = 25.4mm
0.450” x 25.4 = 11.43mm
11.5 / 25.4 = .4528”

I’m just assuming they target 11.5 in the production area might be why we’re seeing these oversized bores?

 

[One Inch Group]

no flattened primers, no evidence. just two blown out primers. the varaflame adaptors look good.

 

[JayVee]

Dear CVA as a fan of your muzzleloaders I regret to write what I'm about to write, however if someone gets hurt because of others not speaking up I sure would not feel right about that. I've been a big fan of the Acura 50 cal 1 and 28 twist five different rifles I shot each for a year and then I gave them away to help others learn .I was excited about the Paramount 45 Cal I brought one of the first ones to come out shot it a lot,, ended up just putting it in the closet because of the bore dimension's
CVA chose from the beginning to make their 45 bore fit their bullet,, I suppose in a business conceptual sense that seem smart,, I do not think they thought through that concept thoroughly . What will happen when an inexperienced shooter chooses to try a different bullet than the factory recommended bullet,, can an inexperienced shooter rely on the bullet to stay seated firmly on the powder column? And what about some of the paramounts that have such loose bores that even their factory recommended bullet is risky about staying seated? I just purchased a MRX Acura 45 Cal 1 and 22 twist the only bullets I can safely seat in this rifle is the factory 280 eld all other bore riding bullets and even 40 cal bullets in a Sabot are too loose in this rifle. I know I guess many will say send the rifle back the problem is I'm convinced that this problem is not just in the rifle that I brought every Paramount shooter that I've talked to the last couple of years has the same issue an oversized bore I'm convinced all of the Acura 45 Cal rifles that are currently being sold here in America have the same bore dimensions or similar, again if you're only going to shoot their bullet I guess everything might be fine but it seems like there's some issues even with their bullets. The Paramount has enough barrel shank and a strong enough barrel that maybe somebody could get away with the bullet falling off the powder column and still firing the gun, the Acura with the thinner barrel worries me I'm afraid someone is going to lose a hand or an arm.
Again to those at CVA if you change your bore dimensions back to an American 45 cal guess what your bullets will still work in the rifle you can still sell your bullets!!!
I will say this to all of you considering buying one of their 45 Cal 22 twist I would really think hard you're going to be very limited to what you can shoot in that rifle ,,will they shoot the 280-285 elds accurately I believe most of the rifles that you buy will ,,are you going to be able to shoot another bullet in it safely I do not think so and I sure am worried that someone inexperienced buying that rifle is going to be missing a hand. Just my personal opinion but I would not buy that rifle unless you are a very experienced muzzleloader shooter, to those that are I don't think you'll have any problems,it's the inexperience person trying a rifle out new that I'm concerned about.

I'm glad I saw this comment. I'm looking to get a muzzleloader and the CVA Acura caught my eye. I shot my Dad's Thompson .50 cal quite a bit but that was almost 40 years ago before I was in my teens. So I'll consider myself a novice when I get one. At first I was looking at the Acura LR-X .50 w/ 30" barrel but then I started looking at .45's. I haven't even checked on the barrel lengths available for this yet. I'm looking for long range and accuracy and then I saw your comment about the .45 CVA and it's bullet issue on one of the many search results on Google. I'm also glad that it led me to this site. Seeing that your comment here is not a very old one I'll have to do some more looking to see if CVA acknowledges this and is going to, or has done anything for this. It figures (my luck) that I saw what I really wanted and then found this. If you have any insight about a muzzleloader for a beginner like me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, JV.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I would look at Patriot from Woodman arms in 45 Cal,,,also traditions is about to offer 1-20 twist 45 Cal should be very soon.i remain a big accura fan just not the 45 Mr or MRX,the 50 cal I still recommend!!

 

[ourway77]

I have been trying bullets in my Accura 45 cal. MRXL 30" barrel .452 bullets fall right through the barrel I spoke to Dennis at Fury he sent me some samples I found the Fury .405 bullets and a harvester light blue sabots fit with enough pressure that they won't move off the powder charge have not fired the rifle yet and wonder if I should I called CVA the woman I spoke too said return the rifle What good will that do I have heard stories of people who sent rifles back and upon return nothing was done? Any such problems with the 50 caliber MRX

 

[Mnt monkey]

I have not heard of any of these issues with their 50 cal bores, the last three Mr 50 cals that I've had all shot excellent and all had great bores very even, I could shoot any bullet that I wanted to, I would think by now management at CVA realizes perhaps they made a business decision that was not right ,I guess I'm curious if they're just going to stay on the same path or correct it,, with traditions now selling a 1 in 20 45 Cal maybe that will put a little pressure on them. I still like the Acura the ergonomics, the trigger, the basic rifle is great I think at least the Mr and the MRX, CVA would not only have to change the rifle bore in their 45 Cal rifles they would probably have to reprogram, a resize their bullets too I really doubt if at this point they're going to do that. Until the pressure and opinion gets so great in the American market perhaps it will force change. Again I like the rifle but I want no part of how it's been managed . American muzzleloaders need rifles that can shoot multiple bullets especially in this market time, CVA took a management market Gamble building a bore designed around a specific bullet I think they failed and for the overall need of fast twist barrels and rifles for our market as far as I'm concerned they hurt that need they did not help it!

 

[45-70]

I love their 1 and 28 twist 50 cal nothing but praise and success with it I just do not understand why these decisions were made it really just centers around bore dimensions and selling bullets and not having the vision to look forward and see the potential dangers involved

because to them it is just a muzzle loader and it isn't suppose to be perfect

 

[bstorric]

because to them it is just a muzzle loader and it isn't suppose to be perfect

More so, you buy a muzzleloader from them once…and feed it lots of bullets. The margins are also probably much higher on their Powerbelts than the muzzleloader itself. So they made a gun that was designed around they’re money making bullets. I agree with @Mnt monkey the MR-x ergonomic, trigger, feel are pretty good. The bore…not so much. I’ll also add that if you’re the type of person who plans to use sabots exclusively, the .45 bore issues really doesn’t matter much…just know that going into it

 

[GM54-120]

CVA, Bergara, Powerbelt and BPI are all owned by the same company. That includes the plant that makes the barrels. Its nothing for them to buy a standard size button or just use the same one they use for the 45/70s. What they did was intentional. To this day i have not heard of a Scout/Hunter barrel that far oversized. Ive heard of some a bit choked in SS. So this is not just some minor flaw that was overlooked.

This was a FEATURE they wanted.

Cant wait to see if Traditions did it right or at least better. There are several things i dont like about Traditions but a light, affordable 45 fast twist has some potential.

 

[JayVee]

I would look at Patriot from Woodman arms in 45 Cal,,,also traditions is about to offer 1-20 twist 45 Cal should be very soon.i remain a big accura fan just not the 45 Mr or MRX,the 50 cal I still recommend!!

Thank you very much. I'm not in a big hurry so I will look into these.

 

[Mountainhunter3006]

Dear CVA as a fan of your muzzleloaders I regret to write what I'm about to write, however if someone gets hurt because of others not speaking up I sure would not feel right about that. I've been a big fan of the Acura 50 cal 1 and 28 twist five different rifles I shot each for a year and then I gave them away to help others learn .I was excited about the Paramount 45 Cal I brought one of the first ones to come out shot it a lot,, ended up just putting it in the closet because of the bore dimension's
CVA chose from the beginning to make their 45 bore fit their bullet,, I suppose in a business conceptual sense that seem smart,, I do not think they thought through that concept thoroughly . What will happen when an inexperienced shooter chooses to try a different bullet than the factory recommended bullet,, can an inexperienced shooter rely on the bullet to stay seated firmly on the powder column? And what about some of the paramounts that have such loose bores that even their factory recommended bullet is risky about staying seated? I just purchased a MRX Acura 45 Cal 1 and 22 twist the only bullets I can safely seat in this rifle is the factory 280 eld all other bore riding bullets and even 40 cal bullets in a Sabot are too loose in this rifle. I know I guess many will say send the rifle back the problem is I'm convinced that this problem is not just in the rifle that I brought every Paramount shooter that I've talked to the last couple of years has the same issue an oversized bore I'm convinced all of the Acura 45 Cal rifles that are currently being sold here in America have the same bore dimensions or similar, again if you're only going to shoot their bullet I guess everything might be fine but it seems like there's some issues even with their bullets. The Paramount has enough barrel shank and a strong enough barrel that maybe somebody could get away with the bullet falling off the powder column and still firing the gun, the Acura with the thinner barrel worries me I'm afraid someone is going to lose a hand or an arm.
Again to those at CVA if you change your bore dimensions back to an American 45 cal guess what your bullets will still work in the rifle you can still sell your bullets!!!
I will say this to all of you considering buying one of their 45 Cal 22 twist I would really think hard you're going to be very limited to what you can shoot in that rifle ,,will they shoot the 280-285 elds accurately I believe most of the rifles that you buy will ,,are you going to be able to shoot another bullet in it safely I do not think so and I sure am worried that someone inexperienced buying that rifle is going to be missing a hand. Just my personal opinion but I would not buy that rifle unless you are a very experienced muzzleloader shooter, to those that are I don't think you'll have any problems,it's the inexperience person trying a rifle out new that I'm concerned about.

 

[Mountainhunter3006]

I completely agree with Mnt monkey and all the others that purchased what we believed was a high quality CVA product only to find out the rifle had lots of negative issues. I have 2 Paramount rifles. One of the original 2019 .45 and a new .40 HTR. Unfortunately, the ELR Powerbelt / CVA bullets are a very poor fit in most Paramount barrels. The .40 ELR bullets fall down the barrel in my rifle and will move up the barrel if the rifle is inverted and shaken. That is a serious safety issue. The .45 ELR bullets in my Paramount fit looser than I would prefer but they do stay seated. My .45 Paramount shoots reliable 1.00"-1.25" at 100 yards with 100gr weighed BH209, 2290fps, SD 18, and I never have any fliers. My .40 HTR never did shoot the ELR bullets reliably. About every 8th shot was a keyhole / sideways tear at 100yds with 3" groups. I have since thrown all my .40 ELR bullets away, but I did keep the handy plastic cases for the properly sized Fury bullets. Parker Production will have .40 bullets for the Paramount's in the near future.
Both rifles now shoot Parker Productions & Fury Bullets properly sized to fit the respective barrels snugly when clean, somewhat tighter when fouled. Accuracy and safety are no longer a question. I do really like the solid Paramount design and now the true performance potential of both my rifles really shines. I considered selling both rifles and starting over but the $$$ loss would have been greater than the cost of a couple bullet sizers I was going to need anyway if I went to a custom build. I do love the Paramount adjustable stocks with the aluminum chassis & solid feel. The muzzle brakes work extremely well and reduce the recoil by what feels like 50%. CVA made a huge mistake expecting customers to only shoot the ELR bullets that do not even fit the bores properly or safely in my opinion. Thanks to several other member posts I fixed my Paramount problems.
Both my rifles are now very reliable and accurate. Here is what I did. If you have a .45 Paramount call Bob at Parker Productions and he will fix your bullet problems. My .45 Paramount never leaks out of the vari-flame breech plug so I continue to use that system. If you have a .40 Paramount call Arrowhead Muzzleloaders and purchase their module conversion kit. It will never leak again. Fury Bullets also available from Arrowhead Muzzleloaders will cure your bullet issues.
I would like to thank all the highly experienced muzzleloader shooters out there that helped straighten me out. I started in muzzleloading a few years ago and like centerfire rifles there are bumps in the road until you gain enough experience to solve your own problems. Only accurate rifles are fun!!!!

 

[Mnt monkey]

I appreciate your post a lot! I really like the Paramount as a foundation and I really like the MRX that's what aggravates me I guess even more about the whole picture, both rifles had so much potential and for the experienced a lot of the bugs can be worked out I hope more people go down the same path that you have that have purchased the rifles.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

part of muzzleloading is knowing YOUR bore dimensions... and fitting YOUR ammunition to that. Or has something changed in the last couple years? Have we, as muzzleloaders become so dependent on factory made ammunition that we can't even function unless we have an off-the-shelf solution? A caliper costs $10 at menards and will be accurate enough to indicate what your working with.

Thank you for making this info available to prospective buyers of CVA products. I will be curious if they change anything... kinda doubt it, but one can hope. ML specs have been all over the place for decades, with no MFG recognized standards whatsoever.

It would be different if the Paramount, ect. were $300 guns, but at $1000+, there are better options (Woodman Arms is one of the better ones).

 

[Decay]

I too have a Paramount 45 (2021) as a deer hunting rifle, exclusively from elevated stands. I have other rifles for walking, stalking, still hunting. I started out with the Powerbelts. I did not get decent accuracy. I kept researching and learning. I eventually got a new barrel!!, a Hankins resizing die (very good!), an Arrowhead GenII kit, and started looking at other bullets. I've settled on the bonded Fury 265STB from Fury. I won't hunt deer with a bullet that isn't bonded, or all copper, or a proper lead alloyI hadn't been able to find any Barnes all copper in over a year of searching. I actually quit searching. As a target bullet, for shooting paper and gongs, I thought the Powerbelt had possibilities, but I wasn't going to waste BH209 on that. If the folks that make Powerbelts increased the jacket thickness, or bonded it to the core, it might be more acceptable. But they haven't, and it it isn't... in my opinion. And now to read that the base pads are inconsistently attached and fall off is another death sentence.
Parkers and Pittmans are definitely another option.

I really do like the rifle, but it sure takes a lot to wring out the accuracy bugs.


My $.02.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Did you put a 1 in 20 twist Brux? barrel on it? Curious a little bit more about your gun build although I do understand not letting the cat out of the bag until it's time.