Powerbelt for elk?

[NTProf]

It is interesting that the Powerbelt website itself recommends 405 gr. bullets and only 80-90 gr. of powder for elk. Yet you consistently hear of people using much lighter bullets pushed by 120-150 gr. of powder.

 

[sqezer]

Other bullets are better suited for heavier powder charge. I shoot a 185 or the 200 gr. Leigh ( BLOODLINE BULLET ) with 110 grs. of BH-209 out of my 1-20 twist Knight. I took 1 big doe at 50 yds., head shot the bullet hit her below and rearward of the eye. the impact of the bullet broke her neck and never moved. I would surely go with a better BULLET.

 

[Dave C]

OK, just got off the phone with the Lewiston F&G. They have not seen this bullet before and at this time can not offer a definitive decision on the bullet. His feeling is that the bullet (Federal Trophy Lead) will not qualify for Idaho but he is passing the information onto Boise for a final decision.

Thanks for checking SL. Let me know if they get back to you with the final verdict.

 

[Dave C]

Yes, the 348 will work on elk. And it is definitely a better bullet with 90 gr than 110 gr of powder (if you push them too fast they blow up). So at 100 yards the bullet probably works better than at 25. Should be OK out to 150.

That said, when I did use powerbelts, I used the 405s. CVA shows them in stock.

http://www.powerbeltbullets.com/Store-View.php?id=272

What rifle are you using. If a T/C with a QLA, powerbelts are probably the only legal conical bullet that will shoot well

So if I would have an ELK come in at 40 yds. I should spook him and let him get further out before I shoot him??? oke: NO there better off in the fishing department. :yeah: At lease if you get the POWERBELT Sinker hung up on a rock you won't lose your lure. :applause: :applause:

That is why I don't use Powerbelts any more. However, many elk have died to them, so if that is all that will shoot well in his rifle, and he only uses 90 gr of powder, he is probably fine. Most people want to use 100 gr or more and those are the ones who get into trouble.

That said, since he is using a knight, it surprises me that he can't get other bullets to shoot well. Have you tried No Excuses 460 gr bullets? I have had luck with my knight with the 460 gr bullets with around 90 gr of powder and a wad underneath. Or Hornady Great Plains 385 gr bullets are good elk medicine as well.

I received the 460g No Excuses bullets yesterday from Dave but it's blowing 20 MPH here today so can't try them out. The Hornady's wouldn't group well for me. Interestingly enough, Dave at No Excuses told me he's heard of similar problems with other Knight DISC rifles. He said about 50% won't shoot from his experience. He (and I) isn't sure why and what's different about the DISC rifles as opposed to other Knights but he's had several customers who have had similar experiences. If the No Excuses won't group for me, I'll stick with the PB's and hopefully let you know how they perform on elk and deer.

 

[sabotloader]

Dave C, which Hornady will not group for you? I have yet to find a bullet that will not group from a DISC unless it is a ill-fitting bullet. No that is not right either because there have been some Knights that the barreled action did not fit in the stock correctly but in those cases it would not shoot anything real well.

Have you tried pushing a No-Excuse down the bore yet? Dave's .503 die is somewhat skinny - so they might be a bit loose. I use the .503x460 also but I use the Bull Shop variety. It seems to be a little larger and fits mine a bit better. That is another good thing about Bull Shop Dan's bullets he can custom size them to what ever you want.

You do have one other good choice for lead. Parker Bullets up here, actually Troy, ID makes a bullet for Idaho hunters.

http://parker-productions-llc.myshopify ... /hydra-con

They are not lubed and Bob Parker says they really do not need to be - but I would add a lube to help reduce fouling.

 

[Dave C]

The Hornady 385 Great Plains wouldn't group for me. It's interesting you mention the ill-fitting stock as mine doesn't fit very well. It's certainly not what i would call a "floated" barrel. I have to force the barrel down into the stock with the screw. The stock fits very tight around the breech and trigger assembly. Having never had a muzzleloader, I thought maybe this was the way the all were??
I haven't pushed one of the No Excuses bullets down the bore yet.

 

[sabotloader]

The Hornady 385 Great Plains wouldn't group for me. It's interesting you mention the ill-fitting stock as mine doesn't fit very well. It's certainly not what i would call a "floated" barrel. I have to force the barrel down into the stock with the screw. The stock fits very tight around the breech and trigger assembly. Having never had a muzzleloader, I thought maybe this was the way the all were??
I haven't pushed one of the No Excuses bullets down the bore yet.

OK - I forgot about those but yet I really think if everything is right you can shoot those just fine....

Stock inletting... usually and normally tight fitting in the receiver area is not a problem - poor fitting in the barrel channel can lead to night mares!

Generally the biggest problems come from barrel harmonics and those harmonics not remaining the same from shot to shot. Read through this little blurb that I wrote several years ago and try some of the tests to see if they work for you?

Is this a new rifle? if it is Knight can fix the problem for you - actually even if it is an older one they can. When is your hunt? that would be the next question.... Another alternative a local gun smith....

But anyway read through this and see what you think...

Checking the Fit of Knight stock


Rob, relieving the stickiness of that should be a really easy fix....

I wrote this up for a guy on Hunting Net the other day - i will repost it here. Look through it and see if it makes sense to you. I firmly believe the sticky stock will affect your accuracy...

Quote:
Can i get a little info on making sure i don't have any stock to barrel issues? I have seen info on tv about how a free floating barrel helps and heard of different procedures of seating the barrel. I will be putting a new stock on my gun very soon (broke the original one), and don't want to have issues there.

I can share some information with you for sure... One thing to remember 'floating' a barrel is not the best for accuracy it is the ‘cheapest’ so that is why you see many companies floating barrels. Companies can not afford to spend the time (money) bedding a barrel to the stock properly so the best thing is to 'float' them. With a wood stock the temperature of the barrel on the wood will make the POI change unless they barrel is bedded in glass or some such feature. In a composite stock if the barrel were bedded into the barrel channel correctly the heat would not be a problem but the flexion of the forearm of the inexpensive stock create a POI shift - so the answer 'float' the barrel.

In your case... since I think you said you have a Knight and if you are getting a Knight composite stock you might not have any of these problems. When I put a barreled action in a Knight stock I set the action in the stock and start the lug screw in. Tighten it with the Allen wrench until it starts to pull the action down. Then stand the gun vertically with the recoil pad on the floor. Gently, and honestly i am not that gentle, tap the gun on the floor to assure that the recoil lug is all the way back in the pocket. Then tighten the lug screw up snugly to hold it all in place. Forgot to say make sure the ram rod is not in place.

When you have the lug screw in tight place the gun in a horizontal position and squeeze the nose of the forearm and the barrel together as tight as you can. If there is no movement – you’re done the barrel is seated on and in the barrel channel. Put the ram rod in and repeat the test. If the test is the same you’re done... go shoot it and give it a check for accuracy.

If during the squeeze test (ram rod removed) the barrel moves down into the stock or the stock moves up to the barrel... release the grip and note if the barrel moves (on its own) back to the original location. Everything should be good - the barrel is floating. Next repeat the test again noting where the barrel returns to. At this time grip the barrel and the forearm of the stock and pull them apart easily. If you feel the barrel stick at some point then you have a problem. If the barrel appears to lift slightly but when you release it - it returns to the original location and you feel no points of stickiness - you are good. Put the ram rod in and repeat the test.

During the squeeze testing if you felt some stickiness in the spring of the floating barrel you will then to do some very light sanding in the barrel channel to relieve the tight spot. You might be able to locate the tight spot by running a dollar bill under the barrel and between the stock to locate the tight spot. Do not sand any more than you need, in fact in my little world the thickness of a single dollar bill is the max thickness the barrel should be off the stock. I normal use a strip of white computer paper for this test it is thinner than a dollar bill - heck it might be worth more than the dollar bill also!!!

Hope this might help you... when you get your new stock and if I can help give a shout....

mike

 

[sqezer]

One thing with the stock fit is what I call the( ramp ) it's the area just in front of the trigger, I have found on 3 different stocks that there is NO contact in that area. When you fire the gun & the bullet travels down the bore & no contact in that area the barrel is free to whip around, be it sideways or up & down. Before bedding I was lucky to keep a 4 in. group but after bedding the Knight shot 1" groups all day long. :yeah: Like sabotloader said it's hard to find a bullet that won't shoot out of a Knight. Like I have said in the past, the best place for POWERBELTS is on the store shelf or in your FISHING TACKLE BOX. :yeah:

 

[txhunter58]

The Federal 350gr is a full bore lead conical. Its skirt is just a bit different than a PB.

But it stays on the bullet - big difference

Actually, it is not that unusual for the plastic rear section to remain attached to the bullet. I know of guys who have recovered bullet and plastic form an animal they killed.

 

[txhunter58]

Dave. If you try another flat based conical, I would definitely try a wad between the powder and the bullet as well. Has tightened my groups up when using lead conceals.

 

[FredB]

I took a nice Idaho muley with a 405gr .54 cal PB a few years ago. 105 grains pyrodex behind it. The shot was broadside at 153yds. I held the peepsight at the top of his back, and the bullet hit near the bottom of his chest, right behind the shoulder. Heart shot. (Ok, yes, I brag a bit.) The point is, that low in the chest, there wasn't much there to penetrate. A rib, and a few inches of flesh, and the bullet lodged against the skin on the far side. If it had hit the bucks shoulder, let alone an elk shoulder at that range, I don't think it would have penetrated. I drew for deer and elk this year, and may use the same bullets. but I will keep the shot at the elk down to 100 yds.

 

[Dave C]

That's good information. Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

I have some 405s leftover and I use Blackhorn. I was thinking of trying 80 grains with a wad @ 100 yards.

 

[idahoron]

I know I am late here but I am not so sure that a DISC rifle is even legal in Idaho. Do they use a #11 cap?
That said I would be interested to see if my paper patched bullets would work.

 

[sabotloader]

I know I am late here but I am not so sure that a DISC rifle is even legal in Idaho. Do they use a #11 cap?
That said I would be interested to see if my paper patched bullets would work.

Yep they with a Western kit installed.



Cap is exposed in the ready to fire position

Same kit works for the Mountaineer and the Ultra-Lite

 

[idahoron]

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't know they made a western kit for the disc.