primers stuck in bare 209 bolt face

[captaincaveman]

just did bare 209 conversion on .52 disc extreme...after about 10-15 shots primers were sticking in bolt face so bad I had to pull the bolt out every time. Load is .458 325gr FTX, 140gr BH209, win209 primer. Primers were bulged out (over pressured) but only at the end when they started sticking. First 10 or so looked fine and came out fine. Brand new breech plug shouldn't have opened up that quick I wouldn't think. I know that load seems a bit hot but it's one holing at 100yrds with it

 

[flounder]

Seems like a pretty heavy load to me, that could be part of it.

 

[toytruck]

:shock: 120 gr of BH209 by volume is the maximum recommended load. If your using 140 gr volume, your gonna blow up your gun or worse, that's the reason behind your stuck/bulging primers!!

 

[captaincaveman]

few guys (on this forum I believe) are running 150gr BH with a 375 gr bloodline no problem. That would be higher pressure than 140 behind a 325 gr ftx. Everything I have read says .52 cal can handle it

 

[WV Hunter]

From what I've seen and read, the sticking primers is an issue typically related to hot loads. You are 20gr over recommended and using a relatively heavy bullet also. I guess if that is what you want to shoot..its probably something you will have to deal with. I personally have never had primers bulge or stick in my Knights, but I also don't shoot over recommended loads. So I guess my post isn't much help.

 

[ohiostate]

might have carbon build up in the breech plug???? 5/32 drill bit... how's the recoil with that load???? shot 120 gr and a 350 hornady FP kicks like hell .. WORM

 

[toytruck]

Don't believe everything you read! Your holding a pipe bomb!! Hope you have good insurance..life and medical!!

 

[rangerod]

Your fingers,nose,face and your life are non replaceable. If this seems like something meant to scare that's because it is.

 

[sabotloader]

just did bare 209 conversion on .52 disc extreme...after about 10-15 shots primers were sticking in bolt face so bad I had to pull the bolt out every time. Load is .458 325gr FTX, 140gr BH209, win209 primer. Primers were bulged out (over pressured) but only at the end when they started sticking. First 10 or so looked fine and came out fine. Brand new breech plug shouldn't have opened up that quick I wouldn't think. I know that load seems a bit hot but it's one holing at 100yrds with it

!40 gr. BH is really a big load with that bullet, but my first question would since they started sticking near the end - have you hand drilled/cleaned the flash channel out in the BP. With that powder-projectile load and the amount of possible back pressure you would be wise to hand drill the Flash Channel out every 7-10 shots. You will need a 5/32" drill bit to clean the channel.

This is what I use for the job. With these tools you do not need to remove the BP - just the bolt reach in an turn the carbon out. It will very hard. The more often you clean the less difficult it will be.



The rifle itself is rated @ 150 grains but most people find much better accuracy results with lesser load. The amount of recoil and the harmonic vibration in the barrel from that bullet and that load will certainly cause un-do barrel whip.

Also with that velocity you are shooting the 325 FTX will most likely come apart at ranges under 125 yards when it hit the animal. I shoot a same weight 325 grain bullet and use 110 grains of T7-3f and get outstanding results.



Another possibility that might cause your primer problem is the head space of the bolt face and primer. If when you were shooting the first primers were coming out slightly dirty up the sides of the primer you are not getting a primer seal in the breech plug and which leads to a premature filling of the breech plug flash channel. The more you shoot the greater the problem becomes.

This a group of shot primers from my Knight with correct head space...

 

[GM54-120]

My best guess is the carbon in the plug is the main reason. As the flash channel fills, volume goes down and more pressure reaches the primer. Hot BH209 loads will also wear out the vent liner in a hurry. Keep a close eye on it. When it reaches .035 its about toast especially with hot loads.

I used 91gr by weight (130gr volume) in mine with the 325gr FTX and had no problems with a Win209 primer.

On a side note, 140gr of BH209 shot sabotless in a 45cal is under 30kpsi peak pressure.

 

[captaincaveman]

Ok...I'll check the breech plug...primers were clean...recoil isn't bad at all...no worse than my .460. Problem is this load is retardonkulously accurate...consistently puts 3 .458 bullets into one .68 hole at 100 yrds...not cloverleafing...1 hole a little over bore size... 100, 110,120, 130 weren't near as accurate

 

[GM54-120]

The 325gr FTX should handle that velocity just fine. Hornady loads them in 450 Marlin a little bit faster and the reviews are very positive. Some of the SML owners on Dougs shoot them slightly faster than 450 Marlin with very good results.

If you want a tougher bullet look for some Speer 350gr 458s. They are likely impossible to find though.

 

[GM54-120]

I cant believe it both Midwayusa and Grafs have the Speer HotCor 458 350gr in stock.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/17305

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/579265 ... -box-of-50

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/spor ... /cat128008

Sectional Density: 0.238
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.232

 

[captaincaveman]

I'm not too concerned about bullet failure...I have had 250gr ftx fail out of my 24" .460 barrel on my encore, but those are cooking at around 3000fps. Had to switch to monoflexs and they are great. This muzzy isn't pushing them near that fast. Just gotta get the primer situation under control

 

[sabotloader]

captaincaveman

An additional couple of thoughts...

I am not sure which bolt housing you have weather it is the older bolt that you drop a primer adapter in or the new Mountaineer style bolt where the primer is inserted in rails on the face of the bolt. Either way if the primer is stuck in the face of the bolt you might clear the problem by opening and closing the bolt pull the trigger and the pin will drive the primer back into the battery cup, which should release the primer.

A second thought you mentioned the you worked your way up the powder scale to 140 before getting the best accuracy. I think you might have a barrel to stock problem. You might remove the ram rod and slide a dollar bill under the barrel and between the stock barrel channel. If that bill contacts the stock on the way down you might need to do a little bit of sanding in the barrel channel. The barrel should be free floating all the way back to the recoil lug or lay with complete contact all the way down the channel in a composite stock. If it is a wood stock and makes contact the barrel temp will/may greatly effect your POI. Both of my 52's were 1" to 1-1/2" accurate with just about any powder load or bullet you put down the barrel.

One other test - at the tip of the stock put your hand around the stock and the barrel and squeeze the two together. The barrel should depress some what in the stock. Do this 4-5 times and watch to see if the barrel responds right back up where it was prior to squeezing? If it is sluggish or stick you have a stock problem. Next do the opposite using both hands. One hand on the tip of the stock the other on the barrel - pull the two apart and release them - again they spring back to the same position each time. If at any time the barrel tends to stick even a little bit you probably need to do some stock sanding in the barrel channel. Another way to identify this if you have shot the rifle enough. Take the barreled action out of the rifle and look carefully at the barrel channel in the stock - you might see some polished spot along the channel or even on the barrel indicating the two are rubbing each other either during the shot or after during recoil.

Lastly when you tighten you stock in place set the stock on the recoil pad insert the lug screw and tighten it till it just makes contact with the stock. then easily tap the rifle on the floor to assure the recoil lug is completely to the rear - then tighten the recoil screw.

Just sharing some thoughts....

 

[bestill]

Please make sure you seat bullet firmly on powder. If you get ignition without bullet on powder it will ring your barrel if it doesn't split and a double load will be catastrophic..

There are custom builds shooting your load but they have a enlarged barrel shank and much longer shank. Also they are using a tungsten carbide vent.
If primer ruptures it will blow out debris in your face rite thru bolt.
Please be careful...

 

[captaincaveman]

composite stock, this bolt http://www.knightrifles.com/product/209 ... rsion-kit/

 

[sabotloader]

composite stock, this bolt http://www.knightrifles.com/product/209 ... rsion-kit/

That is the Mountaineer Style bolt and the only bolt that Knight is selling these days. It will fit either the DISC or the Mountaineer as long as the appropriate breech plug is used.

Composite stocks are notorious for this problem - try the $ bill thing and see what you get...

Also along with most others here I would echo the alert they are giving you with the size of powder load you are using. I think were you to get everything correct a 120 of BH would be well more than enough. Remember BH is really a smokeless - progressive burning powder with two of the BP ingredients added in a small amount to qualify it for a BP sub.

Since it is progressive burning the heavier the project the more efficient the powder is and the greater the pressure will be. Because of the 52 Bore being a little larger in diameter there is a slight more tolerance in the tube than there would be in a 50. But as Bestill and others have mentioned there is no room for error. So after you drop the powder make sure you tap the side of the breech area to level and settle the powder and make sure the projectile is seated firmly on the powder.

 

[Yotehunter243]

Tag to read later as I am having the same problem with my .52 and 120 gr of BH

 

[bestill]

Tag to read later as I am having the same problem with my .52 and 120 gr of BH

Make sure and keep flame channel cleared out 5/32 drill
Winchester209 primer usually help to seal up since there a bit longer than others.
If you measure primer new from package them put in gun and bolt closed and then remove primer are you getting any crush. Preferably primer should be .002-.003 shorter?