Short Distance Hunting

[NorthernMaine]

Recently new to muzzleloader hunter and looking for feedback on the short game. I hardly rarely shoot 100yrds, actually the majority of the time it’s 50yrds or less. So my question is how much powder should I use? I will be using pellets through my CVA Accura mr-x. Also shooting Hornady 290 ftx bore drivers with white hots. I’m thinking 100 grains is good but I hear so many say 150 grains is the way to go?

 

[snapbang]

My opinion save your powder. If you cant kill it with 100gr another 50 probably wont help. Especially less than 100 yards. Ultimatly you need to find out what load is the most accurate in you gun. Hunt with your most accurate load.

 

[deermanok]

Welcome from Oklahoma. Just because a rifle can handle a max charge of 150 grains, doesn't mean it will shoot good using that much powder.
A couple of my own rifles shoot great with 80 grains [V] of loose real black powder.
Best to try some different loads in your rig to find the most accurate.

 

[sheriffjohn]

Sight in for the longest distance you intend to take a shot, then, set targets at known distances to determine mid-range trajectory. Muzzle-loaders (especially with heavy projectiles) are not the same as modern rifles that shoot "flat" for hundreds of yards.

45-70 "trapdoor loads", for example, when sighted - in at 100 yards will shoot 11 inches high at 50 yards. Books, tables, even others' experiences won't tell you where to hold when that monster buck's standing there lookin' at you at 80 yards. Really need to do the "work" yourself.

I like to use a range finder from my treestand, pick out something memorable - stump, odd tree, rock, etc. to determine distances before ol' mossy horns shows up. Best bullet, perfect powder charge, and a sharp flint matter not if that bullet lands in the leaves. Have fun !!

 

[Rvrrat14]

Recently new to muzzleloader hunter and looking for feedback on the short game. I hardly rarely shoot 100yrds, actually the majority of the time it’s 50yrds or less. So my question is how much powder should I use? I will be using pellets through my CVA Accura mr-x. Also shooting Hornady 290 ftx bore drivers with white hots. I’m thinking 100 grains is good but I hear so many say 150 grains is the way to go?

I’m shooting that load in my Optima V2. I’ve shot hogs out to 90 yards. 100gr should be good.

 

[Ron Huff]

I picked up a really nice Knight MK 85 recently and my plan is to use it with open sights in stands where I know my shots will be within 100 yards. Not sure what you are shooting but I am finding really good accuracy right around 100 grains using loose T7 and Pellet T7. I am using 240 and 250 grain bullets and both are working very well. I remember when I first hunted with Black powder guns I had a TC Grey Hawk that killed many Deer out to 120 yards using 100 grain charges of Pyrodex and a 250 grain Hornady Bullet and Sabot Combo. For a short range hunt I would keep your load around a 100 grains and find a good accurate bullet combo.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I have never understood the need for 100 gr loads and more?! Most civil war muskets used 50-60 grs behind a minnie and they shot quite well! I have 50 & 54 rifles and never use more than 60-70 grs.

 

[deermanok]

I think that a lot of the new to muzzleloading guys get caught up in the magnum, more is better craze and will be able to shoot a deer at super long distance right off the bat. Not that such a thing isn't possible but it would take a great deal of skill and time to get there, if at all.

 

[Jitterbug]

NorthernMaine-

Lots of sound advice in the replies above… there is a great group of folks here, with a great knowledge base!

As you get more experience, I would encourage you to get a powder measure and some loose powder, and try load development using smaller smaller charge increments.

Using a powder measure, or especially pre-measured charges you poured up at home, largely negates the “speed/convenience” factor that favors pellets…

Think of driving a car that will only go 30 mph for the city, or 70 mph on the freeway. What if you want to go 50 mph, on a scenic country drive? “Can’t do it.” It’s a similar situation, limiting yourself to pellets.

By sticking with pellets, you’re limiting your ability to develop a load in the “sweet spot“ for your rifle… accuracy, power, recoil. With loose powder you can “tune” your load in smaller increments, say 5 grains, vs. 50 grain increments.

Make no mistake- I’ve used pellets, including harvesting deer with them. I still have some pellets, and fool around with them once in a while. I’ve got nothing “against” pellets, but in the long-term, you’re potentially limiting your results, especially with regard to accuracy.

In related news- from a “power” perspective, I don’t see any need to go above 100 grains of powder for the short ranges you have planned.

“Have a blast!“

Edit: I made the assumption that you’re going to be hunting whitetail deer. Obviously, moose would be a different scenario!

 

[NorthernMaine]

NorthernMaine-

Lots of sound advice in the replies above… there is a great group of folks here, with a great knowledge base!

As you get more experience, I would encourage you to get a powder measure and some loose powder, and try load development using smaller smaller charge increments.

Using a powder measure, or especially pre-measured charges you poured up at home, largely negates the “speed/convenience” factor that favors pellets…

Think of driving a car that will only go 30 mph for the city, or 70 mph on the freeway. What if you want to go 50 mph, on a scenic country drive? “Can’t do it.” It’s a similar situation, limiting yourself to pellets.

By sticking with pellets, you’re limiting your ability to develop a load in the “sweet spot“ for your rifle… accuracy, power, recoil. With loose powder you can “tune” your load in smaller increments, say 5 grains, vs. 50 grain increments.

Make no mistake- I’ve used pellets, including harvesting deer with them. I still have some pellets, and fool around with them once in a while. I’ve got nothing “against” pellets, but in the long-term, you’re potentially limiting your results, especially with regard to accuracy.

In related news- from a “power” perspective, I don’t see any need to go above 100 grains of powder for the short ranges you have planned.

“Have a blast!“

Edit: I made the assumption that you’re going to be hunting whitetail deer. Obviously, moose would be a different scenario!

Great info and makes sense. I’m going to try and play around with as much as I can, my only problem is availability of supplies. Nonetheless I primarily am hunting deer but moose and bear are on the table too. Those also would be average 50yrd shots too.

 

[deermanok]

Pyrodex RS or P will work fine too if that's all you can get. The RS is like a 2f black powder and P is like 3f.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Great info and makes sense. I’m going to try and play around with as much as I can, my only problem is availability of supplies. Nonetheless I primarily am hunting deer but moose and bear are on the table too. Those also would be average 50yrd shots too.

I might have a much different opinion than some above but, what's new?

If you're NEW to muzzleloaders, there's RULE #1 and RULE #2. Rule #1 is SAFETY and rule #2 is... refer back to RULE #1. SAFETY.

You need to know what a WITNESS MARK is and why they are required and, used EVERY TIME YOU LOAD. IT IS NOT AN OPTION, ITS A REQUIREMENT.

Fear not using pellets. Pellets can be found in 30grs, 50grs and 60grs each. There's a considerable number of combinations that can be used but, you MUST remain within the charges listed in your owners manual. Never exceed the manufacturers maximum.

ACCURACY is paramount along with SHOT PLACEMENT. There is no bang, bang, bang, bang..... One shot, one kill.
Find an accurate 250gr or 300gr bullet and if it shoots to your capabilities and is a reliable performance bullet, pellets will be just fine.
You can steadily learn about the use of loose propellants over time.

I would suggest you zero your rifle at 100yds. With a zero at 100yds and 100grs of pellets, you'll be around 3/4" high at 50yds. Not enough to matter at all.

Now I'll remind those who heard that pellets are so bad, its not real..........

T7 pellets and 300gr SST........

 

[Slingingslugs]

100 grns of white hots is just fine. Shot 290 grn barnes on top of that charge for years and never had a problem at all, at any range. Out of a V2 optima and from a Wolf as well. Both guns would shoot 2 to 3 in groups without cleaning at 100 yrds. Both with scopes in the cva durasight mounts. For me 1.5 to 2 in high at 50 yrds was 2-3 in low at 100 yrds and dead on at 20-25 yrds

 

[JimA]

45-70 "trapdoor loads", for example, when sighted - in at 100 yards will shoot 11 inches high at 50 yards. Books, tables, even others' experiences won't tell you where to hold when that monster buck's standing there lookin' at you at 80 yards. Really need to do the "work" yourself.

Huh? My 45-70 with a 405 grain cast bullet at 1300 fps is 1.8 inches high at 50 yards when zeroed at 100.

 

[snapbang]

Huh? My 45-70 with a 405 grain cast bullet at 1300 fps is 1.8 inches high at 50 yards when zeroed at 100.

I wondered about that 11" high at 50 to zero at 100 too.
Maybe 1.1"????

 

[Jitterbug]

Now I'll remind those who heard that pellets are so bad, its not real..........

T7 pellets and 300gr SST........

View attachment 21520

I’ve always wondered where my “place” is. Well, I think I was just put into it!

Awesome shooting, ENCORE50A! We just got scopes legalized for use hunting during MZ season. Looking forward to trying one on my Omega.

If I can print groups like yours, but at “only” 100 yards, I’ll be a happy camper!

Thanks for continually preaching the “witness mark gospel.” It’s great info for new shooters, and a good reminder for more experienced shooters!

 

[ENCORE50A]

I’ve always wondered where my “place” is. Well, I think I was just put into it!

Awesome shooting, ENCORE50A! We just got scopes legalized for use hunting during MZ season. Looking forward to trying one on my Omega.

If I can print groups like yours, but at “only” 100 yards, I’ll be a happy camper!

Thanks for continually preaching the “witness mark gospel.” It’s great info for new shooters, and a good reminder for more experienced shooters!

That witness mark must be on every ramrod and without fail.

I've been shooting the muzz since "73" and up until I started shooting the BP Xpress, I never had a "dry ball". I finally had one and with a breech plug that is non-removable, it took some work to get it out. After a stop at Dunham's and picking up a ball remover, I got it out in the parking lot and went back to the club to finish shooting.
But guess what????? I just did it a second time shooting my custom! Of course that only takes a minute to remove but, it just goes to show that, no matter how long you may have been using muzzleloaders, you can still screw up. WITNESS MARKS ARE A REQUIREMENT.

 

[sheriffjohn]

Huh? My 45-70 with a 405 grain cast bullet at 1300 fps is 1.8 inches high at 50 yards when zeroed at 100.

I'm talking about the "trapdoor loads" which were available back in the 60's. Now adays, there are much hotter options available. A fellow can certainly fire much hotter loads through a trapdoor springfield, but I choose not to do so.

 

[GM54-120]

405gr@1300fps is at the upper end of trap door load. Original load data 45-70-405 was a bit over 1200fps IIRC.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I'm talking about the "trapdoor loads" which were available back in the 60's. Now adays, there are much hotter options available. A fellow can certainly fire much hotter loads through a trapdoor springfield, but I choose not to do so.

You'd have a velocity of 600fps to have a 100yd zero and be 11" high at 50yds with a 405gr round nose cast bullet ?????