Should I wait or Not?

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Just for the record gamegetter, I was just kidding when I made the 1st comment about the PRB, wasnt trying to be a wiseguy.

That said, I think a over zealous GW would have a 10X better case for busting someone's chops over sabots(as stupid as that would be considering 90% of NY hunters use em)than busting someone for using 4759 in a 10ml since it has never been, to my knowledge, restricted publically anywhere.

Sorry to beat a dead horse but until I see it in writing, theres no way Im giving up my 10ml in NY :!:
 
and then what will they do if they check?

violate the number one safety rule of reloading - "never attempt to identify powder visually"?

will they require you to shoot it to see if it "smokes" enough?

will they confiscate the powder and send it to a lab to determine what kind of powder it is? hmmm.. powder manufacturer's readily admit that powders vary from lot to lot, and the conservative reloader should work up from minimums each time they load from a new lot. furthermore, i know of no lab that keeps chemical "fingerprints" of powder to reference. so it would be a time consuming process to identify the make of the powder.

ok, well, maybe they should just check to see if the powder contains nitrocellulose. course, if they do that, they should probably check each of the black powder subs. think they'd be surprised when they find varying levels of nitro in them as well?

its nearly an unenforceable law. and its a supreme waste of time for a conservation officer who has much more important issues to deal with. i for one, will continue to use my TC Omega, shooting 777 during Michigan's muzzleloading season, becuase the law reads that smokeless is not legal during muzzleloading season. however, i use my savage during general firearms, loaded with 5744, which is perfectly legal, and confirmed by the DNR.

this is precisely the reason that house bill 4554 was introduced in michigan. and its precisely the reason that i testified before the hearing committee in support of the bill. i found it exceedingly depressing that the DNR sent 3 officers to oppose the bill, none of whom had any knowledge of muzzleloading. they opposed on a technical detail - primarily that they feel the decision is the DNR's to make, not the state house.

since the DNR also quoted safety as a factor, the committee questioned them as to why. the DNR reported that they'd "heard" from friends and family that smokeless powder muzzleloaders could shoot around 250 yards, vs. black powder subs that could shoot around 150 yards. no other ballistic information offered. fortunately, i was able to provide them with a wealth of information, including real world information from actual testing that i've done.

i don't fault the DNR so much.. they are required to do a lot, and are pulled in a lot of different directions. requiring their officers to be ballistic experts as well is unrealistic. unfortunately, in my opinion, i feel that they are erroneously supporting "traditional" methods by not supporting smokeless powder. scopes, sealed ignitions, and sabots define muzzleloading today. powder is a mere afterthought, offering only a reduction in recoil and a clean gun.

follow the law. its not worth the consequences.

but vigorously work with your game department and state legislature to change such an inane law.
 
Can't wait to get another buck in NY muzzleloader season next year with my smokless powder. No place in the regs says I can't use it, so I will just have to keep on keeping on!! Not worried one bit about an ECO harrassing me anyways. I think too many people are being alarmed about a non issue.
 
Me too. In fact, I'll bring along the same ECO that I showed it to at the range. He thought it was a pretty sweet set up. He may own one by now!
 
cayuga said:
Without question.. if the law states no smokeless powder then that's the law. Whether we agree with it or not. There are so many other muzzleloaders out there that will shoot black powder and substitutes so well and with such accuracy, it boils down to be legal.

If we start stepping around one small aspect of a law, pretty soon running over other aspects of the law might not seem all that bad anymore.

ABSOLUTELY true! There are MANY laws that U don't agree with but..I follow them ANYWAY! Best approach is to write a letter advocating a CHANGE in the law to ALLOW smokeless powder muzzloaders.

In ANY event...I've NEVER felt all that short-changed with a good-shooting NON-smokeless muzzleloader where smokeless is NOT allowed.

Breaking game laws can be bad news...Is ANY law worth breaking knowing you could lose your RIGHT to hunt ALL TOGETHER? I certainly have never thought so!
 

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