Stuck Saboted Bullets in Pedersoli Hawken Hunter (Percussion)

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How? Serious question? I assume that a lead conical leaving the muzzle at 1600-1800 fps will fragment like nuts...how would you avoid lead microfragments?
My conicals I shoot around 1400fps and that’s a pretty stout load. Lead is a fairly mailable metal that in my experience doesn’t really fragment like a center fire bullet would or copper bullets. I shot a buck this year through a front shoulder and the bullet only weighed about 10 grains less and I picked out about I am guessing 8 grains of lead out of the shoulder in large chunks. Side note was very little bloodshot meat do to slow bullet. Which is what you’d want to through away any way and would be the only meat I would consider contaminated with lead.

I cast my own lead bullets, shoot them and eat animals killed withl lead most of my life. Through my work I get tested for heavy metals lead being the main one, and have always been at the lowest levels of lead. But if you are just not ok with lead there are some non lead full bore bullets and plenty of sabot bullets to keep you shooting.
 
This is a Hornady PA conical bullet recovered from a deer I shot in October during the muzzleloader season.
The deer was quartering to when I fired. The bullet struck the right front shoulder and traveled to the opposite side and was in the hide on left back leg.
The bullet is only slightly deformed as you can see. It didn't explode at all.
My load was 80 grains by volume of 2f Swiss black powder. 20211129_154538.jpg
 
How? Serious question? I assume that a lead conical leaving the muzzle at 1600-1800 fps will fragment like nuts...how would you avoid lead microfragments?

Lead is very soft and malleable. It is also heavy and small particles do not remain suspended in the air for very long. You would have to be standing right at a "process" that produced airborne lead particles constantly, for a significant amount of time, before you could inhale enough for it to start elevating lead level in your body that would be worrisome. Getting enough lead in your system to start being of concern far and away happens more often from "eating" it, not breathing it. Thus, simple hygiene goes a long way to prevent issues.


I used to work for a firearm manufacturer at their bullet making department. Their lead process involved melting 2000 lbs "hogs" into a melt pot. This lead was then transferred to a "pour" pot. From there it was transferred into molds to make cylindrical "billets". After the billets had cooled, they were dropped into a giant cylinder and hydraulic force was applied to it to the point that it was extruded through a die to make lead wire. The extruded wire went through a couple pulleys to allow it a bit of time to cool before it was rolled onto a spool. The workers that did this process had several safety requirements to follow, mostly hygiene. They were issued coveralls to wear while working, the coveralls were to be removed after work every day before they went home. No wearing them in their car, in the lunchroom, or basically anywhere except when working out on the floor. They were required to wear a respirator only when drossing the pots, putting lead into the melts pots, and when sweeping up the area, as those three activities were the only things capable of producing enough airborn particles to be of concern. They were not allowed to eat anything before washing up, and weren't allowed to carry food or tobacco on their person while working.
These workers spent 48 hours a week working around lead, yet they only got annual tests to check their lead level. They could request a test at any time too, if they had concerns. A high majority of them never had any issues with lead levels ever, they followed the protocols. But there were two that did while I was there. We were able to determine that both of them were "eating" lead, from poor hygiene, not from breathing it. One of them was a smoker and we found that he was carrying an open pack of cigarettes in his breast pocket while working. Lead particles were settling on the filters of his smokes, which he would then basically put into his mouth and "eat" when he went and smoked on his breaks. When he stopped carrying the open smokes in his pocket, his lead level dropped back down and he never had another problem. The other employee was violating all kinds of safety measures; eating without washing, and even wearing his coveralls home...he even kept his coveralls on for a while when he got home and his small child he held and played with ended up with an elevated lead level from this! This was also from "eating" it, not from breathing it.
Both had the symptoms of having trouble sleeping, a common high lead level first warning sign. They either were very tired and wanted to sleep all the time, or had trouble going to sleep.
I'll bet @Kingwalter is very familiar with this info and knows much more than I do.
 
That is super helpful...I think simply never having owned this type of gun before, I am just feeling leery, not wanting to find myself paying hundreds of dollars to a gunsmith all the time. I understand know that it is relatively rare if proper procedures are followed. Now if only had guns in stock to buy!

There is a "trick" to solve most any problem that can come up with a sidelock that doesn't have an easily removable breech plug. It is just a matter of finding out what the best method is to solve a problem BEFORE you try willy-nilly stuff that will make a proven method not work anymore. Such as what Idahoron mentioned, trying to remove a stuck projectile and ending up putting a hole clear through it, so that the grease gun method then will not work. So many people don't like the thought of having to clean grease out of their bore, so they try other stuff to the point that the option to use the grease method is then rendered useless. NOW they have a big problem. Like Ron said, cleaning grease out of the bore isn't that bad of a task. It sure beats having to take your barrel to a gun smith and paying both time and money to have the breech plug removed.

In your case, wanting to use sabots, it will be important to both find a sleeve that fits your bore well, and to swab between shots. You'll want a fit that seals to the bore pretty well for accuracy but isn't so tight that seating it is a PIA. I've never tried sabots, but I'd imagine they don't slide down a bore with dry fouling in it very well at all. A good swabbing method will help greatly too, without blocking the flame channel if you follow the swabbing procedures I talked about.

Talking about this reminds me of another example of a problem that comes up from time to time and gets made out to be a huge problem: using a cheap crimped style bore brush and having it break loose from the crimp and wind up stuck in the bore, generally clear at the bottom when they tried to reverse directions with it (never happened to me thankfully). A copper bore brush's bristles can bind when reversing direction and get quite stuck, and then the whole thing pulls free from the crimp (there are different style brushes that have a wrap rather than a crimp and are much more robust).
Think about that for a minute. It isn't sealed to the bore, so grease pressure won't remove it. The bristles are bound quite tightly so it won't pull free with a patch worm or similar. Seems like it's gun smith time, right? Nope. You can simply go to a hardware store and buy some copper tubing that has an O.D. just smaller than the bore of your rifle. You run it down the bore until it meets the brush, then hammer the other end of the tubing until it goes over the top of the bristles so that the whole thing winds up trapped inside the tubing. Pull the tubing back out of the bore and your issue is solved. I've never had to do this, but when I read about it I found it quite clever.
 
Lead is very soft and malleable. It is also heavy and small particles do not remain suspended in the air for very long. You would have to be standing right at a "process" that produced airborne lead particles constantly, for a significant amount of time, before you could inhale enough for it to start elevating lead level in your body that would be worrisome. Getting enough lead in your system to start being of concern far and away happens more often from "eating" it, not breathing it. Thus, simple hygiene goes a long way to prevent issues.

Thanks...I actually AM more concerned about eating it, not breathing it!
 
There are two types of traditional muzzleloader shooters, those that have dry balled and those who will.

I wouldn't stuff around removing your breach plug, just buy one of these, attach it to your range rod and yank the sucker out.

Saved my skin from stupidity a few times.

images (12).jpeg
 
next dry baller should start a poll.
1)done it
2)not yet
I did it on my first side lock, a white mntn carbine. I went with the 5-10grains of powder under the nipple.
 
If the ignition fails to fire. I keep a small container of loose powder with me (preferably real Black powder) and pull off the nipple and put some under the nipple, directly into the snail. Then put the nipple back on and fire like normal. This works most of the time. If for some reason this isnt working, I would try everything I can try before removing the breech. @idahoron posted a video using grease to push the bullet out. While this is a little messy, he shows how it can be done with relatively little mess and the risk of damage to the rifle is nearly zero. While removing the breech is possible, it really should be done with the correct tools, ie breech removal tool.
Have done this a number of times, works very well
 

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