Steelheader323 said:
A friend of mine who owns a Pro Hunter is having ignition problems right out the box with his brand new ML, he just got the gun this January and is shooting the bore lock bullets from federal with 80g of bh209, thinking that maybe he didn't have enough pressure for the bh209 to ignite properly I loaded the rifle and fired it myself and did notice a slight delay in ignition, barely anything but there was a slight delay, he was using some fiochii primers, not sure I spelled that correctly, ther was a few shots he took that were nice and crisp ignitions but still every so often there was a delay, the bullet seemed tight enough when I loaded it and fired it, my question is does the pro hunter come with the same design breech plug as the older Encore 209x50 and the same as the omega? I have a few omegas and my dad has the encore 209x50, I didn't even think to look at the Bp to compare it to what mine are on my omega, which shoots bh209 with just about any load and any shotgun primer, my dad still use t7 with the older encore so I'm not sure how that would shoot bh209 since its been a while since I've looked at the Bp, thanks for any info, next time I take him to shoot I'm going to bring some sabot and bullet combos for him to try and see if we can solve this problem
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To answer your question, no, the Pro Hunter breech plug design is not the same as the Encore/Omega. These breech plugs were all designed before the introduction of Blackhorn 209 Powder. The Encore/Omega plug design will shoot Blackhorn 209 fine, up to a point. See below. They can all be improved, with slight modifications. I would suggest trying either the Federal 209A, or CCI 209M (Magnum) primers. If he needs a longer primer, then the Winchester W209 would have that advantage. Some newer lots of the Winchester W209's are as short as the Federal/CCI primers though, so ask the shop if they can measure a couple for you. They used to be in the 0.300"-0.305" range, while newer stock has been in the 0.297"-0.300"ish range.
There are a lot of rifles and breech plugs that were designed before Blackhorn 209. This doesn't mean that they cannot be made to shoot Blackhorn very well. If he want's the best results, I would check with Ron L. here on this board and see if he would modify the breech plug for a vent liner. This would also open up the flame channel from 1/8" (0.125") diameter to basically a 5/32" (actually #22 wire drill 0.157") diameter.
There is also the possibility that the primer headspace is too long for the primer he is using, thus allowing heat and pressure to leak around the battery cup. I have tested around 15 different 209 primers in several rifles, with several breech plugs, unfortunately the Fiocchi brand is one that I have not. Couldn't find any locally, so I couldn't tell you the lengths. There is a stupid simple way to determine the correct headspace in any standing breech/bolt/drop block rifle. Just simply take a UNLOADED rifle,,, measure the length of a primer,,, put it in the rifle,,, point it in a safe direction,,, fire the primer,,, remove the primer,,, measure the length again. You do the math, and that will tell you what the headspace is. In tip-up rifles, you should have a slight crush fit of the primer rim for best results. You can usually get away with 0.003" to 0.005" in most rifles, and some a little more. There is a lot of good information in this sticky, about primer lengths and saboted bullet diameters.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9798
If he wans to continue shooting the B.O.R. Lock MZ™ bullets, I would suggest a Vegetable Fiber Gasket Wad between the propellant and that bullet. If pressure is leaking out that end, this will tell the story immediately. He is losing pressure somewhere, just need to determine which side of the breech plug, front or back.
The pro-Hunter breech plugs have a long narrow 1/8" flame channel, and will accumulate carbon faster than a 5/32" (#22 wire drill) diameter hole will. When the carbon starts to deposit in the flame channel, it robs the heat and pressure making it to the powder. This causes a leak between the battery cup and primer pocket, because the heat and pressure will take the path of least resistance. Keeping those 1/8" diameter flame channels clear takes a little more diligence than the larger 5/32" diameter ones do. But, with your rifle, it's very easy to just tip it up and clean it out at the range with the drill bit example that Encore provided you in his post. Then just poke the flash hole with a nipple pick/wire to make sure it is also clear of carbon after the drill bit scraping.
Might not hurt to reduce one variable at a time in troubleshooting the problem, or just cover all the bases and be done with it. That rifle and breech plug can be made to shoot Blackhorn 209 reliably, I don't own one personally, but having a range just 50 steps out your back door lets you test a lot more rifles than you own. Lots of testing, and lessons learned on that bench.
Like the Farmers Insurance commercial says, "We know a thing or two, because we have seen a thing or two"!
Good luck to you and your friend. Each rifle/breech plug design has it's own learning curve but, there is no reason we cannot shorten the path to get to the goal.
Just so there is no confusion, when drilling a breech plug for a vent liner install, one would use a #21 (0.159") diameter drill bit before tapping the 10-32NF threads. You can also use that drill to go all the way through the plug making the complete flame channel that diameter if you wish. It's only 0.002" larger diameter, and speeds up the process.
