T/C Triumph vs. Blackhorn 209...

[big6x6]

Well I shot the new T/C Triumph today! Well I LIKE it! I just had to have one to try some Blackhorn 209 in. Dicks had reduced the price and I had a coupon so that's there we went last night. I bought a $9.95 Weaver one-piece base and used a Leupold VX-II in some Burris Zee QR rings I all ready had and mounted it all up when I got home.. And here she is:

Not even EXACTLY like I thought it would be until I actually picked it up. The first thing I noticed about it is that it is REALLY light! I weighed it with the scope/mounts and it's almost 7 3/4 lbs ready to go. That's about what your average muzzleloader weighs by itself. It's also a good thing the Triumph has the best recoil pad available on it as it kicks pretty good with the stout loads. I was VERY surprised at the trigger pull. I got 3lbs 14 ounces on my Lyman trigger pull gauge. Very GOOD. Should I say anything about the "Speed Breech XT?" I think it's a gimmick. Actually...I'm not crazy about it at all. It's really kind of confusing figuring out when the breech plug is TIGHT. And really that's what REALLY matters! A regular breech plug would have been just fine, even PREFERABLE!

Ignition was 100% spontaneous and immediate with Blackhorn 209 in the Triumph. I used CCI 209s and was rewarded with perfect ignition.. I shot 24 shots doing nothing between shots as is typical when using Blackhorn 209. Really..no telling HOW may one could shoot and do absolutely nothing to the muzzleloader but load and shoot...

I took both the Triumph and the T/H Omega to the range. It was obvious right off the bat that the Triumph had the tighted bore of any muzzleloader I had! Which, IMO is a LOT easier to manage than than the LOOSEST bore! I wanted to compare velocity and see if the Triumph was as accurate as the Omega. The Triumph actually shot todays loads on average BETTER than the Omega. BOTH rifles seem to be somewhat picky, more so than say a Knight, but both proved to be EXTREMELY accurate with a load it likes...

120gr by VOLUME Blackhorn 209 used for EVERY shot!

250gr SSTs tend to shoot great in most anything..especially so in T/C guns so that's the first load I shot in BOTH guns..

Triumph groups on the top and Omega on the bottom.. The first groups are the 250gr SST and since some mentioned they wanted info on the 260gr Harvester Scorpion...it's the next series of groups. Of course the SST did great and the Scorpion, as usual didn't do that well from either gun. BTW..this concludes my Harvester Scorpion series!


Next up was the 250gr Parker Ballistic Extreme and the 250gr Knight/Barnes PBT. Almost without fail either the 250gr OR the 275gr Ballistic Extreme will flat out shoot in a muzzleloader...boy it's easy to see which one the Triumph likes and the Omega DOESN'T like HERE:

Strange neither gun liked the 250gr PBT with both guns shooting them almost identical.

Next up I tried the new Federal Fusion 260gr. I didn't take a picture because for both guns it ranked as the worst shooting muzzleloader projecticle I've ever tried. Hense this concludes my Federal Fusion experiment! :lol:

Well here's the final group from both guns. Consider the fact that I had all ready shot 21 shots thru the Triumph and 18 shots thru the Omega. No swabbing to nothing. I WANTED to shoot 275gr Ballistic Extremes from both guns but I only had FOUR! So I thought I shoot them thru the Omega and see if it would do as well as last time and I shot another group with the 250gr SSTs out of the Triumph...

By now I'm pretty sure that the 275gr Ballistic Extreme is going to be my "go to" load in the T/H Omega. Looks as if the 250gr SST is in the running for the Triumphs "go to" load along with the 250gr Ballistic Extreme...

Sooo...
Now that you've SEEN it...camo scope/rings or keep the blued?

 

[omegaman]

Thanks great post and information as usual!

 

[Grouse]

It looks fine Chuck. Great shooting.

 

[Lee 9]

Thats excellant, and a good report. You know there are two draw backs, no make that three draw backs to BH.
#1 The cost
#2 The speed which you can use it up because of never having to clean between shots.
#3 The way better more consistant groups make you want to do it again just because you finally can.

 

[kevinbrian]

Great range report and some fine shooting.

 

[Doohan]

Great shooting!!

I would stick with the parkers in both guns! ..... and CAMO would be my choice! I need to show you a pic of my Extreme now that it is done.. camo T/H and camo Omega scope..

Great shooting as always... I GOTTA get to the range!!

 

[ParkerBill]

Triumph Experience

I bought a new Triumph, the all camo one (lock, stock and barrel, so to speak) in February. In keeping with the camo look, I also bought camo QD mounts and the camo Nikon Omega BDC reticule scope.

My triumph shoots MOA or near groups at 100 yards with a variety of loads and bullets, with T7 50 grain pellets, T7 Magnum pellets (2) or 110 grains or so (by volume) of T7 FFFg. It does seem to like the loose FFFg the best, though, at least with the bullets I have tried. I haven't found any BH209 around here yet, but can hardly wait to try it!!

Bullets I have had good luck with to date are the T/C 250 grain Shockwave (Hornady made I believe), Hornady SST in 250 grain and Barnes 250 and 300 grain MZ Expanders. The only bullet I have not had good luck with is the Barnes 245 grain Spit-Fire, but I think that is because I could not get it down the bore of the Triumph in the sabots that shipped with it and shot a few using MMP 3-Petal EZ sabots that were really easy (loose) to push down the barrel. They were spraying into about 12" or so!!

Speaking of the Triumph having a tight bore--boy, mine sure did!!! I am 6'2" and weigh 215 lbs and it took just about every pound of weight I had and both hands to get even the T/C Shockwave 250 with their Easy-Glide sabot down the barrel and that was after starting the sabot with my ball-starter (and yes, with a clean barrel). About the easiest combo I could get down it was the 250 grain T/C Shockwave or Hornady SST 250 in the MMP 3-Petal EZ sabot and that was still a two-handed effort.

I used the combination of 110 grains of T7 FFFg, T7 primer and a 250 grain T/C Shockwave in a MMP 3-Petal EZ sabot to cleanly take a 70 lb wild pig at 50 yards several weeks ago. The bullet blew completely through both sides of the pig in a perfect broadside shot, but then I would have expected it to.

Note I said "did" above. After trying several combinations and talking with both Barnes' and T/C's customer service reps about the extreme difficulty in loading the rifle, I took T/C's advice and sent the Triumph back in under warranty. For what it's worth, the rep at Barnes, who is also a muzzleloader fan, told me it should not take more than 30 lbs of force to push a sabot down the barrel.

I received it back 3-4 weeks later with a work order saying they had lapped the barrel and it now loads (and shoots) normally. I tried every combination of bullet/sabot I have on hand by pushing them down the barrel with no powder and it is now much easier to load. I have not had a chance to get back to the range yet to see if it shoots as good, better or worse than it did.

The closest "chain" stores to me are Gander Mountain in St. Augustine and as of a couple of weeks ago they still don't have any BH209, and Dick's up in Jacksonville (where I bought my Triumph for a great price). I need to check with them and see if they have it, since someone mentioned in this forum a Dick's in AL has it.

More later.

 

[Underclocked]

I've had an off-the-wall thought that doesn't really belong anywhere so I'll chuck it into Chuck's post. :wink:

Does anyone know how much flame, by comparison to primers, is produced by the primimg compound in .22 rimfire casings? And, if it isn't enough flame to ignite an inline with a charge of BH209, couldn't CCI or ? simply add more? There are a zillion different .22 actions that could become the basis for inlines with zero blowback.

So please tell me why that is a crazy notion. :shock:

 

[Lee 9]

Underclocked

The first inline I ever seen was one I madein 1963 as a 40 cal squirrl gun it was made of a 22 auto that I got cheap because it had a ruined barrel.
I believe a 22 mag would do better as they are designed to hold more primer and have a stronger case.
Just my thoughts on the matter. Lee

 

[Underclocked]

but would the casing itself need to be stronger? It would be almost completely surrounded by steel except for any extractor cut. It bothers me that we have to struggle with blowback when the cure is probably already out there. Who said we have to use shotgun primers anyway? :wink:

 

[Lee 9]

Underclocked, you must not have a Triumph. I do get any blow back from mine and I have shot quite a few pounds of powder through it. An other thing I just noticed, checking the breach plug because I thought it had enough shots through it to need replaceing and the touch hole is like new; I like heavy loads and it is really rare to have 6oo shots on a breach plug and not have to replace it. Lee

 

[Underclocked]

No. Those TCs with their weeny finger trigger guards do not agree with my hands. :wink:

 

[Lee 9]

I am not sure about the flame temp or FPE on the 22 primeing.
But my little conversion set up for Mag large rifle primers works just fine. they have a flame temp. close to 10 times as much as a 209. Lee