Traditions Pursuit Help

[edmehlig]

Guys, my brother-in-law dropped off his Traditions Pursuit and asked me if I could find a load/bullet that would shoot accurately out of his ML. I think he spent more money on the 3.5x10x50 Leupold scope than he did for the rifle? Anyway, he was shooting two 50gr 777 Pellets and Hornady's Monoflex ML .452 250gr bullets and their SST-ML also .452 and 250gr. with Winchester triple seven 209 primers.

Does anybody have any experience with this rifle or could recommend a load for me as I have no experience with Saboted bullets. I told him first get rid of the 777 Pellets and get BH209 or Swiss but as far a what to use, sabots, bullets etc would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not a fan of the Pursuit, but I think the dealer convinced him this is what he needed and didn't ask me for advice. So NOW he's coming to me to help develop a load sho this gun will shoot accurately.

Thanks Ed

 

[CatamountRob]

We use 80 grains of BH209 by volume, a 250 grain T/C Shockwave in a black Harvester Crush Rib sabot and a CCI 209M primer.

 

[twild]

Not sure if my buddies is a Pursuit or not but he is shooting 250 gr SST with the supplied sabot over 100gr BH209. He says he needs the drill out the breach plug after only a couple of shots but other than that he likes the rifle.

 

[edmehlig]

Thanks for the replies guys. What 209 primers is he using? Don't know if primers will make a difference?

 

[dbowling]

Mine shot Xtps 240gr or 300 gr with 100 gr pyrodex really good, also not a fan of the Pursuit ended up giving mine to a friend. Used Win 209 primers.

 

[deermanok]

When I owned one, my load was 100 grains of BH with the TC Shockwave 200 grain bullet.
CCI 209M primers.

 

[GM54-120]

Try normal primers first. T7 and WhiteHot pellets should both use standard primers. Triple7 primers are for loose powder. Its a bit easier to ignite.

If moving to BH209 you will need a 1/8" drill bit to keep the flash CHANNEL clean. NOT THE FLASH HOLE. You might also want to try the longest primers Win209s or a shorter primer with a o-ring in the primer pocket. This will cut way back on blowby and more primer energy will reach the powder. Mag primers are worthless if its belching half its energy into the breach.

 

[Neumonic]

What GM-54 said about cleaning the breach plug and o-ring the primers, mine is a Traditions Pursuit UL and i have used 2 of the the 777 50 grain pellets but mostly 90 grains of BH209 with Winchester primers.
Barnes TE-Z 250 grains have done well at the range and killed every deer either DRT or watch it run 30 yards or less and crash, they are pricey but work very well. The bullet sabot combo that grouped even better last year was the Harvester 260 Scorpion, pellets or loose powder both my Traditions and my CVA Accura V2 liked them and they are $14 for a box of 30.

 

[edmehlig]

Not sure if my buddies is a Pursuit or not but he is shooting 250 gr SST with the supplied sabot over 100gr BH209. He says he needs the drill out the breach plug after only a couple of shots but other than that he likes the rifle.

Do you know what drill bit he uses?

 

[ported45]

Dad used to have one and it shot great with 100 grains loose 777, .452 XTPs in black Harvester Crush Ribs, and CCI 209s.

 

[edmehlig]

209s

What grain bullet did he shoot?

 

[snapbang]

If moving to BH209 you will need a 1/8" drill bit to keep the flash CHANNEL clean.

Wait, I keep hearing how clean and easy BH209 is compared to T7. Now you need to keep a drill bit to keep the channel clean. So maybe its not as clean as its built up to be.

 

[CatamountRob]

Wait, I keep hearing how clean and easy BH209 is compared to T7. Now you need to keep a drill bit to keep the channel clean. So maybe its not as clean as its built up to be.

I don’t think it’s the powder that does that, it’s the primer, but it needs to be kept open to ignite the BH209.

 

[twild]

Do you know what drill bit he uses?

Ed not off the top of my head but I'll give him a call and find out.

 

[edmehlig]

Ed not off the top of my head but I'll give him a call and find out.

Thanks!

 

[GM54-120]

Wait, I keep hearing how clean and easy BH209 is compared to T7. Now you need to keep a drill bit to keep the channel clean. So maybe its not as clean as its built up to be.

Seems to me cleaning my flash channel once after a range session is a whole lot easier than swabbing after every shot. I can do that with ease with my Lehigh plugs and never swab once no matter how many times i shoot in one session.

 

[sdporter]

Wait, I keep hearing how clean and easy BH209 is compared to T7. Now you need to keep a drill bit to keep the channel clean. So maybe its not as clean as its built up to be.

Make no mistake, BH209 is dirty, when compared with smokeless. The fouling left behind is such a small layer though, it doesn’t really have an effect on accuracy or loading pressure. I shot probably 200 shots through my CVA Accura before I cleaned the breech plug out with a drill bit. It had closed down significantly. I think I stepped through about 5 or 6 numbered bits till I got it clean. I also believe it’s primer fouling building in the flame channel, not powder fouling. Ihave only had one fail to fire using BH209 though, and pretty sure it was my fault, not the primer or powders. I wrapped my plug with Teflon Tape and think I plugged the flash hole when I loaded up. 2nd primer set it off and the next 12 as well went off. The FTF was in an original Optima with a regular breech plug.(flat face) and not sure it wasn’t the primers fault, just don’t ever want to blame an inanimate object...

 

[Matthew323]

Make no mistake, BH209 is dirty, when compared with smokeless. The fouling left behind is such a small layer though, it doesn’t really have an effect on accuracy or loading pressure. I shot probably 200 shots through my CVA Accura before I cleaned the breech plug out with a drill bit. It had closed down significantly. I think I stepped through about 5 or 6 numbered bits till I got it clean. I also believe it’s primer fouling building in the flame channel, not powder fouling. Ihave only had one fail to fire using BH209 though, and pretty sure it was my fault, not the primer or powders. I wrapped my plug with Teflon Tape and think I plugged the flash hole when I loaded up. 2nd primer set it off and the next 12 as well went off. The FTF was in an original Optima with a regular breech plug.(flat face) and not sure it wasn’t the primers fault, just don’t ever want to blame an inanimate object...

I am totally new to BH209 powder, and the shooting of inlines. With my pistol away in Utah having custom work done on it I have yet to actually shoot an inline.

So what I am about to say pertains to muzzloaders in general, and to real black powder shooting firearms in particular. Flintlocks and percussion sidelocks. But, could just as easily apply to a hande cannone set off with a taper. Or, a matchlock, wheelock, snaphaunce, or miquelet. OR A MODERN INLINE.

Too many people approach the modern inline muzzleloader as if it was EXACTLY LIKE a modern, 21st Century, brass cartridge, centerfire weapon.

It is not!!!! It is dirty and it is finicky by comparison to a centerfire cartridge rifle. PERIOD!!!!!

Several months of reading posts here at MM, asking questions, and actively involving myself in the forum has CONVINCED ME that there are going to be certain preventative measures that if taken before EVERY SHOT WILL VIRTUALLY ELIMINATE THE POSSIBILITY OF A MISFIRE.........

These procedures are for my Optima V2 pistol with a Lehigh Defense #BP-BP-C1, BH209, CVA, QRBP breech plug.......

1. Run a brass, wire rod, pick through the flash channel of the #VL-1 vent liner after the shot has been taken to make sure the hole is unobstructed.
2. Gently run a 3.1mm drill bit (0.122" diameter) in the flame channel of the plug body to scrape out any carbon from the 209 primer explosion. If done EVERY SHOT, instead of when the build up becomes a problem; then the shank end, non-cutting end of the drill bit should be able to be utilized. This should drastically reduce the possibility of enlarging the flame channel unnecessarily. Allowing for the fluted cutting end of the drill bit to only have to be utilized perhaps every 10-20 shots? Maybe every 20-50 shots? Experimentation will determine the ratio.
3. Use the same brass, wire rod, pick to gently probe into the packed BH209 powder charge through the flash channel of the vent liner, before priming the breech plug with the 209 primer. This is to ENSURE THAT THERE IS AN UNOBSTRUCTED PASSAGE BETWEEN THE 209 PRIMER'S JET OF FLAME AND THE BH209 POWDER CHARGE.

These procedures are NOT.MUCH DIFFERENT than what I instituted, and religiously followed, when I shot my flintlocks. After adopting the set of procedures, I almost never had a MISFIRE. Unless I was distracted by somebody talking to me.

 

[CatamountRob]

I am totally new to BH209 powder, and the shooting of inlines. With my pistol away in Utah having custom work done on it I have yet to actually shoot an inline.

So what I am about to say pertains to muzzloaders in general, and to real black powder shooting firearms in particular. Flintlocks and percussion sidelocks. But, could just as easily apply to a hande cannone set off with a taper. Or, a matchlock, wheelock, snaphaunce, or miquelet. OR A MODERN INLINE.

Too many people approach the modern inline muzzleloader as if it was EXACTLY LIKE a modern, 21st Century, brass cartridge, centerfire weapon.

It is not!!!! It is dirty and it is finicky by comparison to a centerfire cartridge rifle. PERIOD!!!!!

Several months of reading posts here at MM, asking questions, and actively involving myself in the forum has CONVINCED ME that there are going to be certain preventative measures that if taken before EVERY SHOT WILL VIRTUALLY ELIMINATE THE POSSIBILITY OF A MISFIRE.........

These procedures are for my Optima V2 pistol with a Lehigh Defense #BP-BP-C1, BH209, CVA, QRBP breech plug.......

1. Run a brass, wire rod, pick through the flash channel of the #VL-1 vent liner after the shot has been taken to make sure the hole is unobstructed.
2. Gently run a 3.1mm drill bit (0.122" diameter) in the flame channel of the plug body to scrape out any carbon from the 209 primer explosion. If done EVERY SHOT, instead of when the build up becomes a problem; then the shank end, non-cutting end of the drill bit should be able to be utilized. This should drastically reduce the possibility of enlarging the flame channel unnecessarily. Allowing for the fluted cutting end of the drill bit to only have to be utilized perhaps every 10-20 shots? Maybe every 20-50 shots? Experimentation will determine the ratio.
3. Use the same brass, wire rod, pick to gently probe into the packed BH209 powder charge through the flash channel of the vent liner, before priming the breech plug with the 209 primer. This is to ENSURE THAT THERE IS AN UNOBSTRUCTED PASSAGE BETWEEN THE 209 PRIMER'S JET OF FLAME AND THE BH209 POWDER CHARGE.

These procedures are NOT.MUCH DIFFERENT than what I instituted, and religiously followed, when I shot my flintlocks. After adopting the set of procedures, I almost never had a MISFIRE. Unless I was distracted by somebody talking to me.

If I had to do all that after every shot I’d give up shooting muzzleloaders.

 

[snapbang]

Im just playing the devils advocate here. If its the primer that causes the channel to need cleaning then we all would need to be cleaning channels.

The important shot for me hunting is out of a clean barrel. No matter what powder I shoot I need to clean the barrel after every shot to replicate that condition. I cant leave my barrel dirty for weeks or months.