Triple 7

[Okie Hog]

We think that you are correct there, they are the same powders, for the most part.

All APP powders contain the same ingredients in differing proportions. All the APP powders contain ingredients not listed on the MSDS.

In about 2010 a retired ballistician and myself chonographed the BP substitutes that existed at that time. We used my Encore rifle and the 250 grain SST bullet.

The average of 100 grains of APP powder was about 10 fps less than 1,500 fps. 100 grains of JSG averaged just over 1.600 fps.

Years later i chronographed Black MZ powder which is much more powerful, giving an average velocity of nearly 1,800 fps.

All the APP powders perform best when a tight fitting projectile is seated very hard on the powder.

 

[LAUDY1962]

Great post Laudy - I love data. Looks like no surprises. I’m having a tough time following though - maybe the formatting got a little messsd up in your post (happens to me all the time) And what is “Div?”

max deviation -- I'm sorry I did not make that clear. I was still cold most likely hahahaha

 

[LAUDY1962]

max deviation -- I'm sorry I did not make that clear. I was still cold most likely hahahaha

to further clarify -- the speeds were average over 3 shots across the chrono. Then the DIV was the max deviation for that set of shots fired across the chrono. I hope that helps. Next time I will make a spread sheet and attach it. Much easier to follow. When things warm I plan on repeating this and show the paper grouping to help better understand the powders accuracy. Thanks for all your patience with this little experiment. God bless those people that do this for a living. Lots of work.

 

[Heat]

Thanks Laudy, great report. Need some real black, may just get some SW while I'm at it.

 

[Ninering62]

All APP powders contain the same ingredients in differing proportions. All the APP powders contain ingredients not listed on the MSDS.

In about 2010 a retired ballistician and myself chonographed the BP substitutes that existed at that time. We used my Encore rifle and the 250 grain SST bullet.

The average of 100 grains of APP powder was about 10 fps less than 1,500 fps. 100 grains of JSG averaged just over 1.600 fps.

Years later i chronographed Black MZ powder which is much more powerful, giving an average velocity of nearly 1,800 fps.

All the APP powders perform best when a tight fitting projectile is seated very hard on the powder.

Thanks for the 411 Okie

 

[LAUDY1962]

Any idea on the corosiveness of the shooters world? I get my best results from blackhorn on a dirty bore. Crud ring is so bad on 777 I can't shoot a second shot without cleaning after each shot. When hunting I shoot a shot of BH at home before I go to camp and leave the bore dirty for the season. Don't really want to try that with Pyrodex.

i don't know how corrosive SWBP is I have always cleaned the bore after a day of shooting. As for fouling it is very forgiving with no crud ring issues. I have loaded as many as 4 shots before it was even starting to run tight and then I swab the barrel. I know that does not answer your question. All I know is that BH209 is not corrosive at all as far I know. What experience I have read on it shooters are not having any issues with it as far BH209 goes.

 

[ronlaughlin]

All I know is that BH209 is not corrosive at all as far I know.

Blackhorn soot is corrosive.

 

[Ninering62]

Blackhorn soot is corrosive.

I have not seen that to be the case. My Accura gets shot before my early ML season starts in the 3rd wk of Oct & gets shot & reloaded & stays loaded until the 3rd wk of Jan when my gen gun season ends. No rust anywhere. I’ve gone this 3 straight years now. Zero signs of rust anywhere on or in the gun. Same with my Paramount, for 2 seasons I did the exact same thing I do with the Accura for the same amount of time, not the slightest sign of any rust anywhere. Outside of hunting season, it gets cleaned after every time I shoot it ( like we all are suppose to do ).
What ML’s have you had rust that you only shot BH 209 in? How long did it sit without being cleaned? Was it Nitrided or stainless?

 

[Ninering62]

i don't know how corrosive SWBP is I have always cleaned the bore after a day of shooting. As for fouling it is very forgiving with no crud ring issues. I have loaded as many as 4 shots before it was even starting to run tight and then I swab the barrel. I know that does not answer your question. All I know is that BH209 is not corrosive at all as far I know. What experience I have read on it shooters are not having any issues with it as far BH209 goes.

That has been my experience as well. But both of my BH 209 guns are Nitrided. That’s a huge benefit to have.

 

[ronlaughlin]

What ML’s have you had rust that you only shot BH 209 in? How long did it sit without being cleaned? Was it Nitrided or stainless?

This is an older model Accura that uses the old style breech plug which requires a wrench. It was shot many many times back when CVA rifles didn't reliably ignite Blackhorn. We worked on a breechplug design that would ignite Blackhorn, and shot thousands of shots in all kind of weather to see if we could make the rifle reliably ignite Blackhorn. Cleaning the
rifle was not a priority . Back then we all thought Blackhorn was not corrosive, but the barrel became pitted. The rifle has a blued barrel.

 

[Ninering62]

View attachment 30855





This is an older model Accura that uses the old style breech plug which requires a wrench. It was shot many many times back when CVA rifles didn't reliably ignite Blackhorn. We worked on a breechplug design that would ignite Blackhorn, and shot thousands of shots in all kind of weather to see if we could make the rifle reliably ignite Blackhorn. Cleaning the
rifle was not a priority . Back then we all thought Blackhorn was not corrosive, but the barrel became pitted. The rifle has a blued barrel.

Hoe Lee Cow Ron! Thanks for the pic, man, talk about a ruined barrel jeeezzz. I appreciate the backround on everything & all your personal experience too.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

View attachment 30855





This is an older model Accura that uses the old style breech plug which requires a wrench. It was shot many many times back when CVA rifles didn't reliably ignite Blackhorn. We worked on a breechplug design that would ignite Blackhorn, and shot thousands of shots in all kind of weather to see if we could make the rifle reliably ignite Blackhorn. Cleaning the
rifle was not a priority . Back then we all thought Blackhorn was not corrosive, but the barrel became pitted. The rifle has a blued barrel.

That rifling still looks a lot better than some of their new guns, im sorry to say.