What do I need to size and lube lead bullets?

[drpatton]

About 20 years ago, I stopped hand loading and gave away my Rock Chucker. Now, I find I want to size and lube lead bullets. Or Size Paper Patched Bullets. So, what do I need to do it? Do I need to purchase another Rock Chucker, or something like it? How does it lube the cast lead bullets?

 

[Greg_E]

I think Lee only goes up to .512 or .515 so anything bigger is out. Not sure how big other companies can go.

 

[drpatton]

I think Lee only goes up to .512 or .515 so anything bigger is out. Not sure how big other companies can go.

Above the .50 range the dies have to be special ordered from Lee. I'm sure the sizers are the same way. I suppose there isn't enough of a market for a .54

 

[X-ring]

About 20 years ago, I stopped hand loading and gave away my Rock Chucker. Now, I find I want to size and lube lead bullets. Or Size Paper Patched Bullets. So, what do I need to do it? Do I need to purchase another Rock Chucker, or something like it? How does it lube the cast lead bullets?

RCBS or lyman bullet lubrisizer. The sizing dies for them come in many diameters depending on what caliber you are lubing. 45 cal. dies are available in .450 , .451, and .452. I size my Gibbs bullets .451 for a perfect fit. Of course it depends on YOUR bore diameter since bores can vary slightly. X

 

[idahoron]

About 20 years ago, I stopped hand loading and gave away my Rock Chucker. Now, I find I want to size and lube lead bullets. Or Size Paper Patched Bullets. So, what do I need to do it? Do I need to purchase another Rock Chucker, or something like it? How does it lube the cast lead bullets?

To determine how strong of press you need depends on how much you want to size the bullet down to and how hard the lead is.
For instance, my Lee 500S&W bullet drops out at .501 I wrap them and size them to. 501. If the lead hardness is 5 to 7 they wrap and size just fine. If the lead is harder the paper strips off the bullet.
I picked up a .496 sizer to size the naked bullet first if someone wants to buy harder bullets than I normally make. With harder lead I do all the sizing before the bullets have a chance to age harden. That makes a huge difference.
My 45 cal bullets drop out smaller than the bore. My Accurate 400 gr paper patched bullets are at .442 I wrap them and they are at .448 but my rifle didn't shoot them well at all. I took them at .448 and sized to .446 which is very loose and they are wicked Accurate.
In almost every instance I size I could do it with a Lee cheapola press. As long as I size the hard lead while it's fresh.

 

[drpatton]

In almost every instance I size I could do it with a Lee cheapola press. As long as I size the hard lead while it's fresh

I have a thousand questions to ask. I'll start with just a few. How did you know to go under bore size with your Paper Patch bullet? I would have done the opposite and been discouraged.

I want to be able to shoot lubed and Paper Patched bullets. Since I no longer have a press, what type of press, should I buy which will do both? Do regular presses lube as well? I only made hand loads with copper jacketed bullets with it. I never loaded lead. What would you recommend as a good set up?

What is the main reason, besides hunting, shooters deal with alloys? When I used to cast and size bullets, it was pure lead with a hand sizer. Now, I no longer cast my own, so why would I want to deal with a harder alloy? Is the reason to stay within the grooves of a very quick twist?
Sorry for the ignorant questions, but I just don't know.

 

[drpatton]

RCBS or lyman bullet lubrisizer.

Does a luberizer attach to a regular press or is it separate? I have no idea how this works. Sorry.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I went with a Lee 4 die setup. I put all 4 of my .45 dies in one of the discs and can either step size or use a single die as needed. But i pan or hand lube my lead.

 

[drpatton]

I went with a Lee 4 die setup. I put all 4 of my .45 dies in one of the discs and can either step size or use a single die as needed. But i pan or hand lube my lead.

Thanks

 

[drpatton]

RCBS or lyman bullet lubrisizer. The sizing dies for them come in many diameters depending on what caliber you are lubing. 45 cal. dies are available in .450 , .451, and .452. I size my Gibbs bullets .451 for a perfect fit. Of course it depends on YOUR bore diameter since bores can vary slightly. X

I just bought the Gibbs in .451 with a 1:18 twist. I guess it's Perdersoli's standard Gibbs. Now, I want to put lead into it which is worthy of the rifle. I may not be the best shooter, but I want to give the rifle, and myself, the best advantage.

 

[idahoron]

I have a thousand questions to ask. I'll start with just a few. How did you know to go under bore size with your Paper Patch bullet? I would have done the opposite and been discouraged.

I want to be able to shoot lubed and Paper Patched bullets. Since I no longer have a press, what type of press, should I buy which will do both? Do regular presses lube as well? I only made hand loads with copper jacketed bullets with it. I never loaded lead. What would you recommend as a good set up?

What is the main reason, besides hunting, shooters deal with alloys? When I used to cast and size bullets, it was pure lead with a hand sizer. Now, I no longer cast my own, so why would I want to deal with a harder alloy? Is the reason to stay within the grooves of a very quick twist?
Sorry for the ignorant questions, but I just don't know.

The only time I lubed grease groove bullets I pan lubed them. I didn't size them back then.
When I first started looking at paper patched bullets I read everything I could find about it from the mid 1800's.
The Lee 500S&W bullet was what I wanted to use. The profile of that bullet was exactly what I wanted for hunting. At .501 I knew I was going to need to size. At that time I was thinking I needed a super tight fit. That bullet wrapped and sized to .501 was pretty tight. It just worked.
With my 45 I started with pistol bullets and minie bullets. While I had good groups once in a while with tight loads they were not consistent.
I tried the RCBS 11mm rifle bullet patched and sized. I have a TON of sizer dies.
When I wrapped and sized to. 446 it was more of a slip fit. That is actually more close to the fit used by target shooters in the 1800's. The groups fell into place and consistency was on point.
After finding a bullet that was accurate and consistent the next step was to tweak the hardness to improve groups and effectiveness on game.
Certified pure is very soft and in my opinion can reduce penetration on big animals like elk. On my 500S&W bullet I found that between 6 and 7 bhn was accurate. Testing showed that expansion was controlled at the speeds I was working with. When I started shooting game with them they were instant kills. Penetration was complete from any angle. The only time I find one is when an elk is either shot lengthwise or shot through the shoulders.
On my 45's I knew from research that long distance BPCR shooters were shooting harder bullets and so are the Muzzleloader long distance shooters. Their issue was nose slump on big bullets. I elected to go that route and harder bullets were indeed more accurate.
I have a hardness tester to be able to understand hardness and correlate that to accuracy and performance on game. Being able to replicate that hardness also leads to better consistency.

 

[WP79Vet]

Seems to me that for a given rifle, it takes a bit of trial and error to discover exactly what combination of lead hardness and bullet diameter produces the desired combination of accuracy, ease of loading, and penetration on game. So... there are two routes: 1) Buy an adjustable sizer die, which is more expensive, but lets you experiment with bullet diameter without further expense, or 2) Buy a best-guess fixed diameter die and be prepared to buy more of them... which has the lowest entry cost, but may end up being the most expensive route.

 

[WP79Vet]

Thanks

I really like the looks of the Lee Classic Turret Press. Fundamentally better design than the more expensive Redding, Lyman, and RCBS turret presses.... and the 4-die turrets are really inexpensive, so you can have one for each cartridge for which you load. I'm still working with the RCBS Rockchucker Dad gave me in 1980, but my son has a Lee Turret, and I may get one soon.

 

[drpatton]

The only time I lubed grease groove bullets I pan lubed them. I didn't size them back then.
When I first started looking at paper patched bullets I read everything I could find about it from the mid 1800's.
The Lee 500S&W bullet was what I wanted to use. The profile of that bullet was exactly what I wanted for hunting. At .501 I knew I was going to need to size. At that time I was thinking I needed a super tight fit. That bullet wrapped and sized to .501 was pretty tight. It just worked.
With my 45 I started with pistol bullets and minie bullets. While I had good groups once in a while with tight loads they were not consistent.
I tried the RCBS 11mm rifle bullet patched and sized. I have a TON of sizer dies.
When I wrapped and sized to. 446 it was more of a slip fit. That is actually more close to the fit used by target shooters in the 1800's. The groups fell into place and consistency was on point.
After finding a bullet that was accurate and consistent the next step was to tweak the hardness to improve groups and effectiveness on game.
Certified pure is very soft and in my opinion can reduce penetration on big animals like elk. On my 500S&W bullet I found that between 6 and 7 bhn was accurate. Testing showed that expansion was controlled at the speeds I was working with. When I started shooting game with them they were instant kills. Penetration was complete from any angle. The only time I find one is when an elk is either shot lengthwise or shot through the shoulders.
On my 45's I knew from research that long distance BPCR shooters were shooting harder bullets and so are the Muzzleloader long distance shooters. Their issue was nose slump on big bullets. I elected to go that route and harder bullets were indeed more accurate.
I have a hardness tester to be able to understand hardness and correlate that to accuracy and performance on game. Being able to replicate that hardness also leads to better consistency.

Thank you.
I tried pan lubing. The bullets were stuck in the pan with the lube. I tried dumping the pan upside down and cracking the lube. That didn't work, so I had to dig them out. When I did, the lube came off of the bullets.
I never sized the bullets, except my .58 minnie hand sizer. That's when I shot with the N/SSA. I poured and molded bullets with a friend who used the same molds. I wasn't great at it, but they worked.
As far as alloy, I know I can buy pre-made alloy as well as bullets. although the bullets are rare. More than likely, I'll have to start molding again.
I'm not sure what Lyman is doing with their product line. I don't know if they are getting out of part of the business. I asked them and never got a reply. We may have seen the last of the Lyman muzzleloaders. Who knows? I loved my Rock Chucker, so RCBS or as WP79vet said, the Lee Classic turret may be a good options. I'll go with the Lee if the threads are compatible with the other manufactures.
When I no longer use something, I give it away, which is what I did with my Rock Chucker. I still have the dies for 45/70, .444 marlin and 10mm. I would have gotten rid of them , but they are buried in a sealed ammo can, deep in my cellar.
I'm still amazed how you figured out to under bore size your paper patched bullets. I would never have thought of that.

Ron, you and a few others have not ceased to amaze me. (Lewis is another one.) The way you all come up with ideas and solutions is like Magic.

https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-Classic-Turret-Press/dp/B003BWTF1E?th=1&psc=1

 

[drpatton]

I really like the looks of the Lee Classic Turret Press. Fundamentally better design than the more expensive Redding, Lyman, and RCBS turret presses

https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-Classic-Turret-Press/dp/B003BWTF1E?th=1&psc=1

 

[drpatton]

1) Buy an adjustable sizer die, which is more expensive, but lets you experiment with bullet diameter without further expense,

I looked up adjustable sizers and didn't find anything. Where do I find them? I'll probably purchase the Lee Classic Turret.

 

[HC]

https://hanksprecisiongunparts.com/p/smooth-bullet-sizing-die-complete-kit
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/swing-lock-adjustable-smooth-sizing-die/

These

 

[edmehlig]

Thank you.
I tried pan lubing. The bullets were stuck in the pan with the lube. I tried dumping the pan upside down and cracking the lube. That didn't work, so I had to dig them out. When I did, the lube came off of the bullets.
I never sized the bullets, except my .58 minnie hand sizer. That's when I shot with the N/SSA. I poured and molded bullets with a friend who used the same molds. I wasn't great at it, but they worked.
As far as alloy, I know I can buy pre-made alloy as well as bullets. although the bullets are rare. More than likely, I'll have to start molding again.
I'm not sure what Lyman is doing with their product line. I don't know if they are getting out of part of the business. I asked them and never got a reply. We may have seen the last of the Lyman muzzleloaders. Who knows? I loved my Rock Chucker, so RCBS or as WP79vet said, the Lee Classic turret may be a good options. I'll go with the Lee if the threads are compatible with the other manufactures.
When I no longer use something, I give it away, which is what I did with my Rock Chucker. I still have the dies for 45/70, .444 marlin and 10mm. I would have gotten rid of them , but they are buried in a sealed ammo can, deep in my cellar.
I'm still amazed how you figured out to under bore size your paper patched bullets. I would never have thought of that.

Ron, you and a few others have not ceased to amaze me. (Lewis is another one.) The way you all come up with ideas and solutions is like Magic.

https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-Classic-Turret-Press/dp/B003BWTF1E?th=1&psc=1

When I pan lube my bullets I remove the entire block of lube with the bullets still in the lube and either with my thumb or something like a new pencil and push them out. Never had an issue and I’ve been doing it for years.

 

[bronko220002]

I also picked up a Lee press that accepts the breech block. Now no need to buy complete sizing kits for about $30. You buy the breech block and then you buy your sizing inserts for it for only about $16 each. I wish they would have thought about this years ago before I bought a half dozen sizing kits!

 

[Decay]

Many years ago I had a Lee turret press. My now ex-wife bought me a Dillon 550b as a present. Thinking progressive reloading was necessary for the high volume I was shooting back then, I thought it was a good reloader untill I learned I couldn’t trust the powder dispenser. I’ve dismantled my Dillon so it is now a single stage turret press. I’ve wished many times I still had the Lee turret press. I think it’s the best choice on the market. You might even be able to go to Lee’s website and buy a factory refurbished unit at a substantially lower price.
I also use the Lee press for sizing and I have Mr Hankins excellent sizing die in it.