What sabot bullet combo for deer out to 100 yards

[brad502a]

I didn't say it was a max charge. I said it was a potent charge. IMO I don't think you need to push a bullet that hard unless that is where you're getting your best accuracy and/or shooting long range.
I get sub MOA accuracy with 68 gr (wt) of BH so I wouldn't even consider going any heavier. No deer is going to know the difference.

Bronco
you realize that 68 gr W is almost 100 gr V, depending on the lot #, it could be more.

 

[Ode1891]

If you are using tubes to measure powder, you don't really know, get a "real" powder measure.

I have a few. I also might measure weight and use that for a more exact load.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I’ve had great success with Barnes and Hornady. ......................

Well, you've gotten around 20 responses so far.

If you've had great success with Barnes and Hornady, why not continue with them?

If you're accurate and your shot placement is right, you can kill a deer with a marble. Accuracy and shot placement are #2, right behind #1, which is SAFETY.

If the charge you've been using still works with either the Barnes or Hornady, you're set. Practice and good luck hunting.

 

[Ode1891]

Well, you've gotten around 20 responses so far.

If you've had great success with Barnes and Hornady, why not continue with them?

If you're accurate and your shot placement is right, you can kill a deer with a marble. Accuracy and shot placement are #2, right behind #1, which is SAFETY.

If the charge you've been using still works with either the Barnes or Hornady, you're set. Practice and good luck hunting.

Thanks

I’m here looking for ideas as a start off with a brand new rifle.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Thanks

I’m here looking for ideas as a start off with a brand new rifle.

I can't count the numbers of new muzzleloaders I've had in 55yrs of shooting them. All kinds, makes and models.

It would be rare that any of the new modern inline rifles today, wouldn't shoot 110grs VOLUME of BH209 and one of the Barnes bullets. Every Encore platform rifle, and I've had a number of them, all shot that combination excellent. I have friends with CVA rifles that the same combination works excellent in. Yes, you could shoot 60grs volume, or you could shoot 120grs volume, or any combination of those volume charges converted by weight. As you stated, you're only shooting 20 rounds or so each year.
You'll do fine........... good luck

 

[Ode1891]

I can't count the numbers of new muzzleloaders I've had in 55yrs of shooting them. All kinds, makes and models.

It would be rare that any of the new modern inline rifles today, wouldn't shoot 110grs VOLUME of BH209 and one of the Barnes bullets. Every Encore platform rifle, and I've had a number of them, all shot that combination excellent. I have friends with CVA rifles that the same combination works excellent in. Yes, you could shoot 60grs volume, or you could shoot 120grs volume, or any combination of those volume charges converted by weight. As you stated, you're only shooting 20 rounds or so each year.
You'll do fine........... good luck

Thanks ! With the feedback here, I’ll get out a scale and measure what my volume 110 weighs. Shooting in the 250 or less bullet range, I’d imagine I can drop a bit, have good consistency, and reduce the bazooka recoil. I think some time maybe in the 80s or 90s I bought mzld bullets around 190 in 50 cal but I could be mis remembering that

 

[MrTom]

250 is overkill. And recoil is like an elephant gun. Only reason has been availability.

There are a ton of bullets on the market in the 200 to 240 grain range that will smoke deer at ranges to 200 yards with more moderate charges of powder to help keep recoil down. And these bullets are more available than Barnes products at times. The Barnes XPB bullet in 225 grain, .451 diameter in a black sabot would be a super good 100-150 yard deer bullet with a charge of 63 weighed grains [90 grains by volume]. There's also a .429 diameter, 225 grain XPB that would shoot well with the same charge of powder in a green sabot. Both of these bullets using that BH209 powder charge have given me 2 to 2-1/4" groups at 100 yards with my V2 Accura. Using T7 fffg the group opens up a bit at the 63 grain weighed charge. Still a deer killer inside 150 yards. Much less recoil too.

 

[Ode1891]

Thanks for the exact details on bullets and sabots.

 

[bronko220002]

Thanks for your tip. Getting back to previous replies about buying separate packs of sabots and a quantity of bullets, does anyone sell , for instance a 50 or 100 quantity of just these bullets and these sabots? Or is the only way to buy these in combo packages ? Thanks

You could buy the .458" Barnes TSX then the appropriate MMP sabot for them. They make a 250 gr TSX FB

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Try some of the new 340 grain Hornady BoreDrivers, with 84 grw BH209.

I also used my Pressure Trace II with a strain gauge glued to the outside of a heavy barreled 50 caliber rifle to develop some Low-Pressure smokeless loads for my use. A DVD set demonstrating these loads, which have pressures equal to or less than 84 grw of BH209, will be for sale on eBay next week. I developed these loads for the use of myself and some of my customers. The cost of the DVD will be less than one container of BH209. Based on the MSD sheet for the product, BH209 is made up of 83% smokeless powder (nitrocellulose) with corrosive Guanidine Nitrate added to it.

eBay link to DVD set:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1762999314...r9HddYw1X+z1aYHJH/XPyRkBo=|tkp:Bk9SR9b6wvjOYw

 

[smokepolehall]

I never worked up a load for my Blk. Dia. I just took those 230 gr .451 in blk. sabot and used 75 gr of T7-2F. I had 2.5" groups at 125 yds. I may take the time this Spring to work up a load, 2.5" isn't bad for a deer's ribcage

 

[bronko220002]

Bronco
you realize that 68 gr W is almost 100 gr V, depending on the lot #, it could be more.

Brad I know that I was referring to Mr Tom's post about 77 gr (110 V) as a potent load. That's what works best for him. I guess I'm lucky in that I can get sub MOA with a lesser charge.

 

[LBAhunter]

But I’m not planning to shoot as much as it’d require to sift through various bulk sabots and bulk pistol bullets to find a good match.

Sorry to ramble.

You have been given great advice. Pretty much any load given will kill at 100yds if the accuracy is there, depends on your definition of what accuracy is. If a 3 shot 3 inch group is accurate enough, then pretty much any bullet, sabot, powder 80 to max load will do it. If you want better accuracy, whatever that is, that only comes by time shooting.

 

[Ode1891]

There are a ton of bullets on the market in the 200 to 240 grain range that will smoke deer at ranges to 200 yards with more moderate charges of powder to help keep recoil down. And these bullets are more available than Barnes products at times. The Barnes XPB bullet in 225 grain, .451 diameter in a black sabot would be a super good 100-150 yard deer bullet with a charge of 63 weighed grains [90 grains by volume]. There's also a .429 diameter, 225 grain XPB that would shoot well with the same charge of powder in a green sabot. Both of these bullets using that BH209 powder charge have given me 2 to 2-1/4" groups at 100 yards with my V2 Accura. Using T7 fffg the group opens up a bit at the 63 grain weighed charge. Still a deer killer inside 150 yards. Much less recoil to

I have been given tons of suggestions here, and I’m getting a grip on all the nomenclature. I looked up the Barnes XPB pistol bullets and they look like the basic expanders, don’t they. And in the XPB I can get down to 200 grains, which is 20 grains heavier than any bullet I’ve used on deer in a 30-30, 30.06, or my new 350. So it’s plenty of mass on deer and less recoil. I was wondering if Barnes uses some sort of proprietary plastic material in their mzldr sabots? The tmz and ez for instance always appear different than the expanders sabot—considering the combo packages. The tmz and ez look alike but they must be different of one loads easier. Maybe they expand better into the barrel to prevent blow by.? Apparently the EZ sabot is different than the TMZ in some way. If I go with the Barnes XPB bullet, from where and what brand sabot do I buy? I’m sure people on this sight have experimented with a variety and know what works best in a CVA MR 50. Given the expander type tip, what tool do you use to load these XPB bullets? Thanks


My comments and questions may seem redundant but it’s easy to get lost in the acronym nomenclature weights and measure soup thrown around by folks who’ve experimented with everything for years. Like sabots…. I have no idea where to buy or what brand to buy if I want Barnes level consistency. I’m just grasping the sabot color codes

 

[Va Hunter]

Here’s a Barnes 250 grain TEZ recovered from a deer I shot at about 125 yards. Clipped the left shoulder, went through the right shoulder and lodged just under the hide. Deer dropped in his tracks.

 

[Va Hunter]

I left my Omega loaded from the end of muzzleloader season until the next. Shot it twice to make sure it was still shooting right. 100 yards, 250 grain TEZ with 2 T7 pellets. The TEZ works great accuracy wise and performs good on deer.

 

[smokem]

At 100 yards it seems like a case of paralysis by analysis. You could throw a sharpened stick at that distance and harvest a deer. You could literally toss a couple pellets of triple seven down the pipe, jam in what have you and blast away.
If you decide to take on shooting out past 100 plus yards, then you should become particular.
Personally, I have settled on 250 grain Barnes in part because they are available, in part because I prefer a non-toxic bullet and mostly because they perform so well. They shoot equally well from my Knights, Thompson and previously CVA. If you take the time to dial yourself in at longer distances, then you should use a loose powder of some sort (I use BH) and learn what works. My loads are punched up. I don't worry a bit about the recoil. I'm not shooting 5 rounds in a row when I shoot a deer. It's one and done so one hit is not an issue to me. I do lighten my triggers and I have never developed a flinch, but I suppose that you could if you do as I have and push the load hard. The doe I dropped at 245 yards this past season did not go an inch from where it was when I pulled the trigger. That's why I use the 250 and punch up the load. Being able to confidently take that shot knowing that it will be an ethical and effective one and done is why I measure down to the grain and never vary from my recipe.
At 100 yards, carry on......

 

[LBAhunter]

I have been given tons of suggestions here, and I’m getting a grip on all the nomenclature. I looked up the Barnes XPB pistol bullets and they look like the basic expanders, don’t they. And in the XPB I can get down to 200 grains, which is 20 grains heavier than any bullet I’ve used on deer in a 30-30, 30.06, or my new 350. So it’s plenty of mass on deer and less recoil. I was wondering if Barnes uses some sort of proprietary plastic material in their mzldr sabots? The tmz and ez for instance always appear different than the expanders sabot—considering the combo packages. The tmz and ez look alike but they must be different of one loads easier. Maybe they expand better into the barrel to prevent blow by.? Apparently the EZ sabot is different than the TMZ in some way. If I go with the Barnes XPB bullet, from where and what brand sabot do I buy? I’m sure people on this sight have experimented with a variety and know what works best in a CVA MR 50. Given the expander type tip, what tool do you use to load these XPB bullets? Thanks


My comments and questions may seem redundant but it’s easy to get lost in the acronym nomenclature weights and measure soup thrown around by folks who’ve experimented with everything for years. Like sabots…. I have no idea where to buy or what brand to buy if I want Barnes level consistency. I’m just grasping the sabot color codes

Call MMP and Harvester about sabots. They will send you samples to try.

 

[MrTom]

Something you need to consider here is that if you end up shooting BH209 powder, the powder/bullet, sabot needs a very firm tamp that stays firmly tamped and easier loading sabots may not give you that. T7 and other less powerful powders are not as fussy about loading pressure, but BH 209 needs to have a really solid pack or things won't always work out the way you expect. All of my inlines are used at one point or another to hunt and I use nothing but BH209 to hunt. All of those inlines use a plain, non-ribbed sabot and, yes, they load harder than any "easy load" or ribbed type of sabot, but they stay on the powder charge with pressure. To assure a solid pack in the field, I carry a pool ball with a 1/2" hole drilled 1/4" deep that fits over the end of the field ramrod so I can get a lot of loading pressure on a charge without poking a hole in my palm. Works super good.

As far as sources for bulk sabots, LBAhunter has some good advice.

Another anomaly with BH209 powder is the breech plug. The standard breech plugs in some guns may or may not be made with steel that will at some point erode the fire hole, the small hole in the powder end of the plug, making it larger than acceptable. Too large of a fire hole can cause accuracy issues big time. All of my inlines' plugs have been converted to use replaceable vent liners that simply screw in or out. A vent liner costs about $6.00 instead of $30.00 for a new plug. And the vent liners are made of a much harder steel, so they last about three times as long as the average plug.

I know that all these little things keep popping up for you but it's better to learn of them now and put suggestions to use ahead of running into them down the road when you think you've finally figured it all out. A lot of us did not have this luxury.

 

[Ode1891]

Something you need to consider here is that if you end up shooting BH209 powder, the powder/bullet, sabot needs a very firm tamp that stays firmly tamped and easier loading sabots may not give you that. T7 and other less powerful powders are not as fussy about loading pressure, but BH 209 needs to have a really solid pack or things won't always work out the way you expect. All of my inlines are used at one point or another to hunt and I use nothing but BH209 to hunt. All of those inlines use a plain, non-ribbed sabot and, yes, they load harder than any "easy load" or ribbed type of sabot, but they stay on the powder charge with pressure. To assure a solid pack in the field, I carry a pool ball with a 1/2" hole drilled 1/4" deep that fits over the end of the field ramrod so I can get a lot of loading pressure on a charge without poking a hole in my palm. Works super good.

As far as sources for bulk sabots, LBAhunter has some good advice.

Another anomaly with BH209 powder is the breech plug. The standard breech plugs in some guns may or may not be made with steel that will at some point erode the fire hole, the small hole in the powder end of the plug, making it larger than acceptable. Too large of a fire hole can cause accuracy issues big time. All of my inlines' plugs have been converted to use replaceable vent liners that simply screw in or out. A vent liner costs about $6.00 instead of $30.00 for a new plug. And the vent liners are made of a much harder steel, so they last about three times as long as the average plug.

I know that all these little things keep popping up for you but it's better to learn of them now and put suggestions to use ahead of running into them down the road when you think you've finally figured it all out. A lot of us did not have this luxury.

I went to the MMP Site. Holy smoke there’s a lot to consider!