White Bison need help

[longbowelk]

Pictures too big to put on here.
I got this White Bison last spring and tried to get several 460 gr lead conicals to group. I had heard White's were really accurate. I got it from Doc off GunBroker as it was one of the last 2 he had. It has a 23inch barrel(Doc says it is 24"). It did not have a front sight so I put a Lyman Globe on it. I got the Lyman Peep from Doc. I tried NE 460, my own .504's 450, another 435 hollowbase .503. I put it aside until this year as I could not get a group to my satisfaction. I got a tip here or another huntingnet.com that I needed to use a wad.
So I got the .512 .06thick wads. One guy said he used 2 but he was shooting a Knight Mountaineer I believe. So, I tried 2 wads with my new 435gr hollowbase .504's. Using 80grVol of Black MZ at 50 yds and 2 wads, I got 3 shots at about a 2 to 2.25 inch group. This was about what I was getting last year with a scope mounted. I then went to one wad and got a 3 shot group to about 1", It was shooting left so I made some adjustments and shot 2 shots within an inch. Up to this point I was swabbing after each shot. My swab was a moist patch of Hornady one, both sides, dry patch, a patch with my bullet lube lightly put on, both sides, another dry patch then reload.
Ok, now after the last 2 shots I decided to Not swab. Shot was 1.5" higher and 2.5" to the right of the last 2 shots. I thought, what is going on, so I swabbed and fired another round. It was on top of the first 2 giving me a nice tight 3 shot group of less than 1".
I know on a followup shot on big game no one is going to swab prior to a 2nd shot if needed. Let me know what you think? Thanks, Alan

 

[bp45cal]

stop all the swabbin n shoot
you shoot Whites with a little fouling in um

 

[dbowling]

what bp45cal said, if you go to Docs web page and read his info he says these guns are made to be shot on a fouled barrel and instructs them to be shot that way.. not shooting on a fouled barrel and swabbing between shots in counterproductive, adjust your sights for a fouled barrel and leave them that way.. shoot a squib load of 15-20 gr. before you go hunt.

stop all the swabbin n shoot
you shoot Whites with a little fouling in um

 

[toytruck]

Did you adjust the powder load any or stick with just 80gr.? I know nothing about Black MZ powder, but I do know Triple 7. Try 2Fg T7 then work up or down according to your groups.
I owned a Bison at one time, it shot super accurate using T7 an light loads of 60gr. with a 460-480gr conical and unlubed wad. Like said stop swabbing its not necessary in White rifles and especially with lube, your just adding to the problem.

Let us know how this works out, it's not that complicated!

 

[Fmfdred56]

My bison is a 540 but all my whites get as good or better groups with fffg than ffg so that may be an avenue to explore. As far as the swabbing goes i spit patch every 15-20 shots any more than that is not needed honestly its probably not needed at that point but it's how I do it.

 

[longbowelk]

The Alliant Black MZ is a clean powder that doesn't foul to bad. I've had good success with it in my TC Hawken. My next outing in a couple of weeks I am going to see about trying the T7 2F and 3F and the Black MZ at probably 70gr volume. I do shoot a 30 grain squib load. I'll then just shoot each powder load about 5 or 6 shots and see what it does. No swabbing except that I want to start each powder with a clean bore. That way I can get a shot by shot viewing of each powder. I'll post my results. Thanks. ..

 

[Dave C]

The swabbing/no swabbing debate has been discussed in another thread. Many claim they can get better groups without swabbing and don't have to deal with a crud ring with T7. This has not been my experience. I have tried it both ways and my groups shoot tighter with a light swabbing between shots. I don't go to the extreme that you are. I simply run a "spit" patch down the bore--wet side once, dry side once. If I don't do that, the crud ring that builds up makes it increasingly difficult to seat bullets and to clean the ring. I've nearly gotten ramrods stuck at the range after allowing that ring to build up without swabbing between shots.
I don't have any experience with the Alliant powder. If you are going to try the T7 though, I would start out around 60g and work up until your group starts to open up. The T7 is about 20% hotter than other powders so 60g is equivalent to 70-75g of other powders.
I am personally of the belief that I'd rather have one good accurate first shot rather than having to rely on an accurate follow-up shot. In my limited experience, follow-up shots with a MZ are pretty tough at the ranges we're shooting at after fumbling around with loading another round.

 

[Harleysboss]

Longbow, When using BlkMZ try compressing the powder charge before loading the bullet. I tried a bottle of MZ in my 54 MK85 Knight. I tried 3 shots with just dumping powder and seating the sabot/bullet. The group was opened up noticeably. I then I tried 3 more. But this time after dumping powder I put a flat faced jag on my rod and leaned hard on the powder to compress it. Followed up with my bullet. Group came back and the report and recoil was back to where I thought it should be. If you read up on Blk MZ the manufacturer suggests that it does well being compressed. All that being said I don't use it anymore. Good Luck.

 

[longbowelk]

Here is my update from my testing of Not swabbing between shots. This is a no brainer for all White shooters as you are correct in the fact that I do not need to swab between shots. On both Black MZ and T7-3F shooting around 75grVol 435 gr HB conical and one .06 wad I basically got the same results. 1st shot after a 30 gr squib load I shot at 50 yards and was about 2.5 inches right and 2.0 high. Next shot was 1" left, 2.0 inches high. The next 3 were all piled up at 1"rt and 2.0 high. With that being said in a hunting situation I hate firing off a couple of rounds at camp so that I am ready for my best accuracy. Any suggestions on that? I tested my TC Hawken and CVA Accura with clean bores shooting the same identical loads and my first 3 shots are all in a wad. No squib or 1 or 2 rounds needed. I guess it is what it is....Thanks for feedback. Alan

 

[muzzlestuffer]

Yes you only need to put 30 grs powder down barrel install cap point up in air in safe direction pull trigger should get a woosh of lighted gun powder (no bullet) thats called a squib load fyi then load your hunting load and your ready to hunt. Note: do this several times right after cleaning gun then test under this condition so you know where you bullet will hit on the first shot then fire two more times noting where they are hitting hopefully there all grouped together but if not they are usually with in a inch or two of each other.