Williams FP Hawken VS Lyman 57SML

[Idaholewis]

This 500 Yard .54 Cal video turned out to be as much a Sight comparison as the Shoot itself. This is the Williams FP Hawken VS the Lyman 57SML, i have said it for years now that i feel the Williams FP Hawken is a Better Built sight, This video shows what i am talking about. They are both good sights, But in my opinion & experience with Both, the Williams FP Hawken is the Better sight, Especially if you plan to try some longer range where the Peep Bridge is elevated toward it’s upper position, The Lyman 57 SUCKS Here

 

[Idaholewis]

First off, As i say in the Video above, If you are serious about shooting long range you need to Bite down and Buy a Quality Peep sight, There is NO Substitute here, this is one of them things where you get what you pay for. I swear by Lee Shaver sights for the Money, Yes There are finer (cosmetically) made sights Like MVA, Kelley Soule, Baldwin, Etc. But They are also considerably more money and do NOTHING more than Lee Shavers Sights, I have both his Super Grade, and Economy Grade Long Range Soule Sights, I can say from hands on experience with Both that Lee Shaver sights are ROCK SOLID Dependable.

Both the Lyman 57SML and Williams FP Hawken are ok sights, With The Williams being the Better Choice of the 2 in my Opinion, This opinion coming from LOTS of hands on experience with both Sights as i own several of Both, They both have their ups and downs. The more Robust of the 2 goes to the Williams FP Hawken, especially when elevated and Gib Locked, which is EXTREMELY important when shooting longer distances.

Here is The Williams FP Hawken Peep sight. If longer ranges was my main focus, i personally would AVOID the Target knob model and go with this Regular version sight and ad a Gib Lock Screw. The Target knob model is Slow to adjust, and you end up running out of the elevation Worm gear anyway at longer distances

This Williams Gib Lock screw is important with the Williams FP Hawken, It takes place of the little Flat head screw on the Side that locks down the Elevator, With this Gib Lock you can make field adjustments WITHOUT the need of a little Flat head Screw driver

 

[Idaholewis]

If you don’t want to spend the money on a Dedicated Long range Soule sight, and you just want to test the “waters” with a Decent sight setup for your TC Hawken or Renegade Rifle? I say Go with a Lyman 17AHB Globe Front sight due to it being the lowest Globe sight made at .404 High, This allows you to keep the Peep Bridge as low as possible, Leaving you more Elevation adjustment. If you go with a Taller Front Globe sight you end up wasting more of your elevation.

Here you can see just how low the Lyman 17AHB Globe is on 1 of my Rifles

And go with the Williams FP Hawken Peep sight with Gib Lock elevator Screw. This is the next best thing to a Much more expensive, dedicated long range Soule sight setup, This will get you out to 500, Maybe 600 Yards

 

[Idaholewis]

And lastly, Get yourself some Lee Shaver BPCR inserts for your Lyman 17AHB Globe, The ones that come with them are CRUDE at best, Lee Shaver’s are MUCH MUCH Better, finer inserts. These fine inserts are a BIG Key to me being able to Shoot this Sight System as well as i do

Lee Shaver’s, They come in a Card like this. You can also get just Circles, The Circles are what i use

Here you can see a Side by Side comparison of the Lyman inserts that Come with their 17 Globes (You get a little pack of them with the Sight) and Lee Shaver’s Fine BPCR inserts, As you can clearly see there is NO COMPARISON. I throw the Lyman’s in the Garbage.
Lee Shaver Bead inserts on the Left and Middle, Lyman on the Right

And here is a Lee Shaver insert Bead compared to 2 Factory Bead sights that came off the TC Hawken and Renegade

 

[Matthew323]

Is it possible to put a Hadley eyedisc on the Williams FP Hawken sight?

 

[BrantSFGDS]

Any idea where a person can find the Williams Hawken sight? I've been looking for one for a while.

 

[Idaholewis]

Is it possible to put a Hadley eyedisc on the Williams FP Hawken sight?

I tried my Shaver’s Hadley and it don’t fit, Wrong thread. Lee makes them in all threads, so you can definitely get one in the right thread, But the Eyecup itself is WAY to Big & Heavy. This is why i use the 1” inch Williams Target Aperture, they have a Small .050 Hole which works pretty well for me, I will say when shooting these Lyman 57s and Williams FP Hawken Peep sights i miss my Hadley Eyecups Smallest Hole, In most cases when Target shooting (depending on lighting) for me anyway, The smaller the Hole the Better

I see Folks claim that you can interchange the Apertures from the Williams FP Hawken to the Lyman 57SML, This is simply NOT True, You can thread a Williams Aperture in Both the Williams and the Lyman 57s, But you can NOT Thread a Lyman Aperture in the Williams FP Hawken, They are VERY Close in thread pitch, but most definitely are different. I use to know the Thread pitch of Both, but i have lost track of it over time and no interest to go look it up again

 

[Idaholewis]

Any idea where a person can find the Williams Hawken sight? I've been looking for one for a while.

I don’t know? I haven’t seen them in stock in a Long time now, The last one i seen was for sale on here in the Classifieds by Bad Karma, I would have bought it but it was already Sold when i seen it.

 

[Idaholewis]

Here is another Quick video of issues i see with the Lyman 57SML, Play in the Windage Screw adjustment, I have 5 or 6 of these Lyman 57SML sights and ALL of them have these issues to some degree or another (Some Worse/Better than others, but they ALL have it) This is not to bash the Lyman 57 Sight, They simply are what they are, I am showing the Differences, and giving my opinion of which sight i feel is better, especially if you want to try some longer Ranges and don’t want to Spend the Money on a High Quality Soule/Vernier sight.

 

[Idaholewis]

For those that have the Lyman 57SML Peep sights, You can get the Side to Side movement fairly tight by Shimming the Base, i have done so with mine and it worked fine, It is a Shame that Lyman doesn’t do something to address this from the beginning, But fact is they Don’t

Simply remove the Slider and Shim here where i am pointing, Even a piece of Tape, or several pieces can Make a HUGE Difference, You could also use a Piece of Aluminum Can Etc. (as many as needed to tighten the Slider up)

 

[Denney84]

Love the info! I'm still on the hunt for a William's fp hawken. Someone said they were close to being in stock again soon? I dont know how true it is but hopefully I can get into a couple of them. Now the Lee Shaver sights, are they robust enough to hunt with? The two guns I'm outfitting now are going to be stretched out but I would love to be able to hunt out to say 400 yds. Maybe further if I can see well enough to do it.

 

[Matthew323]

I tried my Shaver’s Hadley and it don’t fit, Wrong thread. Lee makes them in all threads, so you can definitely get one in the right thread, But the Eyecup itself is WAY to Big & Heavy. This is why i use the 1” inch Williams Target Aperture, they have a Small .050 Hole which works pretty well for me, I will say when shooting these Lyman 57s and Williams FP Hawken Peep sights i miss my Hadley Eyecups Smallest Hole, In most cases when Target shooting (depending on lighting) for me anyway, The smaller the Hole the Better

I see Folks claim that you can interchange the Apertures from the Williams FP Hawken to the Lyman 57SML, This is simply NOT True, You can thread a Williams Aperture in Both the Williams and the Lyman 57s, But you can NOT Thread a Lyman Aperture in the Williams FP Hawken, They are VERY Close in thread pitch, but most definitely are different. I use to know the Thread pitch of Both, but i have lost track of it over time and no interest to go look it up again

Lewis, I thought that the standard female threads in Lyman, Williams, Redfield, etc. aperture rear sights for the eyedisc was supposed to be 7/32"-40.

 

[Idaholewis]

Lewis, I thought that the standard female threads in Lyman, Williams, Redfield, etc. aperture rear sights for the eyedisc was supposed to be 7/32"-40.

They are different, not by much, But definitely different. A williams Aperture will fit a Lyman sight perfectly fine, But a Lyman Aperture will NOT fit a Williams Sight

I just copied this from another Old Post.
I called Lyman today and they said that there apertures have .225 X 40 threads to the inch. Then I called Williams gun sight Co. and theirs is 7/32 x 40 which is .218"

 

[ohiostate]

This 500 Yard .54 Cal video turned out to be as much a Sight comparison as the Shoot itself. This is the Williams FP Hawken VS the Lyman 57SML, i have said it for years now that i feel the Williams FP Hawken is a Better Built sight, This video shows what i am talking about. They are both good sights, But in my opinion & experience with Both, the Williams FP Hawken is the Better sight, Especially if you plan to try some longer range where the Peep Bridge is elevated toward it’s upper position, The Lyman 57 SUCKS Here

does the lyman have the side to side movement at low 100 yards and under??? is the williams FP hewken better then the lyman in low light???

 

[Idaholewis]

does the lyman have the side to side movement at low 100 yards and under??? is the williams FP hewken better then the lyman in low light???

No, The Lyman is pretty Solid when the Slider is down in the Base Good, The Side to Side Play happens when you elevate the Peep Bridge way up to shoot Longer Ranges, The More you elevate the Worse it gets. The Williams on the other Hand is ROCK SOLID From it’s lowest position, to it’s most elevated Position, And the Windage is ROCK SOLID all the way through as well.

There is no difference between the 2 in Low light, They both Suck equally well there. Any Peep sight will struggle in really low light

 

[ohiostate]

my RMC peep i have on my lyman deer stalker sucks in low light

 

[Bad Karma]

Is it possible to put a Hadley eyedisc on the Williams FP Hawken sight?

Yes. This site has a comprehensive list of the differing thread patterns and sizes.

http://www.texas-mac.com/Selectable_Aperture_Eyecups.html

 

[Bad Karma]

I don’t know? I haven’t seen them in stock in a Long time now, The last one i seen was for sale on here in the Classifieds by Bad Karma, I would have bought it but it was already Sold when i seen it.

Well shoot, I should have kept it! Actually, no, I’m pretty good with my Lymans, those rifles are not used for real long range at any rate. For that I have the Shavers Economy Soule. Beautiful piece of machinery.

 

[Matthew323]

As far as rear sight apertures are concerned, the only thing that supposedly works in low light situations is a ghost ring aperture.

In all the years that I have spent on forums, I don't think that I have ever seen spelled out what exact diameter aperture constitutes a ghost ring. In other words, where does a large rear aperture for target shooting/hunting stop, and become a ghost ring.

I do know that posters have stated that when using a ghost ring rear sight, that there should be absolutely no attempt to try and focus upon the ghost ring. Instead, when mounting the rifle, both eyes are suppose to be kept open, with the front sight being in focus, and the large diameter hole in the ghost ring forming an indistinct halo/donut hole around the front sight, which is supposed to be kept centered in the ghost ring's hole.

 

[MTY]

I purchase the NECG Weaver 106 sight to use on the lk-93. My past practice has been to just remove the aperture and use the hole as a ghost ring. This will not work on the NECG sight. The hole is round in the elevator, but a square sided slot in the sight body. With the aperture removed, you see a vertical rectangle instead of a round hole. Also, the aperture must be screwed in tight against the sight base to keep the elevator from rattling around. Not what I was hoping for, and just a FYI. It appears well made, but the design could be improved.