Working up a load - Range protocol

[DocBob]

OK, I have my bullets (conicals), pre-measured powder (777 FFg), wads, cleaning supplies (???), etc, etc, etc. I'm finally off to the range to see what my gun gets along with best!!!

How do you all like to proceed???
How many shots/charge?
How many different charges/bullet type?
How often to clean and with what?
How cool should the barrel be before the next shot?


I'm working up a conical load in the 400+ grain range for Colorado Elk. What distance would you recommend I zero at? (100, 125, 150 yds?)

If this topic has been hashed out previously, please feel free to point me to the thread...My search didn't yeild very good results

Thanks in advance.

Bob

 

[MOdeer]

DocBob,
A lot of what you want to know is determined by your particular rifle. Generally, when I work up a load for a new rifle, I'll start at the low end of the powder charge range I'm looking to use, then work up to my max. A 3 shot group is adequate to begin with.
Normally I'll jump 10 grains between loads in the beginning, you should find a "sweet spot" for accuracy in there some where, then you can narrow it down by changing the charge by 5 grains.
With 777 I clean between each shot, one wet patch using both sides, and one dry one both sides. Windex makes a great cheap cleaning solvent, as does windsheild washer fluid.
With conicals, I don't think barrel heat is as much of an issue as it is with sabots. I would start close, maybe 50 yards, find a load that shoots well(preferably one hole at that distance) then back up.
I have very little experience with conicals, but they do have a steep trajectory curve compared to lighter weight sabots. The others on here will give you better advice as to the range you want to zero at.
Once you find your load, make certain of where it hits with a clean dry bore, that's what you'll be hunting with. Good luck with the rifle, and on your hunt!

 

[txhunter58]

Everyone has their little quirks on working up a load. Here is my basic protocol:

I start at 25 yards. You are not interested in moving your sights at this point, just to see how they group.

Load and fire one shot to foul the barrel. Usually the first shot out of a clean barrel will have a slightly different point of impact than the next ones. Not everyone does this or feels like it is neccesary, but I have had good luck with it.

Load 80 grains of powder, wad (if used) bullet, primer, and shoot. One "spit" patch (both sides), then 1 clean patch (both sides). The "spit" can be a number of things, but I actually lick one side of the patch with the real thing because I don't have to dig in a bag in the field. However, many people have ready made patches soaked in windex, etc in a ziplock to use in the field.

After running these 2 patches, I load and shoot. I do this for a 3 shot group. At this point, I usually walk to the target to closely inspect the group. This gives time for the barrel to cool.

Next I load 85 grains, and shoot 3 times, 90 grains and 3 shots, and 95 grains and 3 shots. For certain bullets, I will go to higher powder charges, but with a 460 grain slug, you are getting close to max pressures as you apporach 100 grains (at least in my opinion) AND loads between 80 and 95 grains of powder are more than adequate with a 460 grain slug.

After you have this data, you will have a feel for what is the most accurate load (which will be different for each gun). Now move back to 50 yards and shoot some 3 shot groups. Take the most accurate of these and move your sights to have the bullets striking 1 to 2 inches high at 50 yards.

Then take the target back to 100 yards and see where you are. You may need to adjust the sights slightly more at this point.

My first few years of shooting a muzzleloader, I had a hard max of 100 yards. I would suggest you consider something along those lines to start.

You should be able to adjust your sights so that you can have a dead on hold out to 100 yards.

 

[cayuga]

OK, I have my bullets (conicals), pre-measured powder (777 FFg), wads, cleaning supplies (???), etc, etc, etc. I'm finally off to the range to see what my gun gets along with best!!!

How do you all like to proceed???
How many shots/charge?
How many different charges/bullet type?
How often to clean and with what?
How cool should the barrel be before the next shot?


I'm working up a conical load in the 400+ grain range for Colorado Elk. What distance would you recommend I zero at? (100, 125, 150 yds?)

If this topic has been hashed out previously, please feel free to point me to the thread...My search didn't yeild very good results

Thanks in advance.

Bob

Since you're starting from scratch, I start at 25 yards. I shoot three shot groups to discover which conical will group the best. at that range they hits should be very close if not touching.

The with a starting powder charge (70 grains of 3f powder for me) I then start pushing more powder to the conical and see how hard I can push it before the accuracy falls off. Also remember to use wads and try without them as well.

Once I have my conical accurate, and pushed as hard as I want.. (those big conicals only need no more then 100 grains of powder IMO) I then move the target back to 35 yards and shoot a group. That group as well should be very good. Since your shooting iron sights, be sure to try and hold the same sight picture. That is the biggest reason groups fall apart. The further back we get the less we can see the sight picture.

Now move to 50 yards, 75 yards, and so fourth.... When you reach a distance where you can not hold a group that YOU are comfortable to shoot at game with, that should be your max.

How often you clean/swab would depend on the rifle. My Whites for instance will shoot fowled just fine. My Black Diamond XR will also shoot fowled. But my Knight has to be swabbed.

Like said, conicals will heat up the barrel but not as bad as sabots IMO. Still, after you shoot, set the rifle down, swab the barrel if you like, take a walk to the target and study the hit. Make a note of anything you might have done wrong or right. This is a good time to sit and think about how you shot and what your rifle is doing. Now load it again, and go ahead and shoot.

After five shots, I like to set the rifle off to the side and let it cool in the shade if possible. I then like to rest myself a little and really examine how I am doing.

I am sure it will all come together. A 400 + grain conical with a good powder charge should be bad elk medicine.

 

[omegaman]

All good advise....I'll add that I do all load development using a scope and good rest, this eliminates the human error factor. After a load is found I remove the scope and re-sight with peep or which ever sight I'll be using.

 

[big6x6]

All good advise....I'll add that I do all load development using a scope and good rest, this eliminates the human error factor. After a load is found I remove the scope and re-sight with peep or which ever sight I'll be using.

Absolutely!

PERSONALLY...If I were working up a load for using a lead conical..I'd start at 70gr Triple Se7en(fffg or ffg). 70gr is PLENTY of oommph to kill anything. Shoot two shots with that load, I shoot at 100yds...if two shots won't group, 3 certainly won't. Usually for conicals, no swabbing between shots is necessary or desired so I usually don't. If 70gr won't group I'd go up in 5gr increments to about 80gr-85gr...if it's not grouping by now..it probably won't.

 

[art sehnke]

working up a load, range protocal

Gentlemen, these were all excellent instructional advice. So much so, I am going to print a few copies of this thread to hand out to new ML shooters and keep some extras in my loading 3-ring binder. And DocBob, thanks for asking the questions in the manner that you did. And good luck with your rifle & future loads.

The Redbird

 

[DocBob]

Thank you everyone, great suggestions/advice. I've been archery and rifle hunting for years, but the ML thing (especially conicals) is new ground for me. I feel much more comfortable with my direction.

Redbird, thanks!...I really do try to ask questions on forums that others can draw from as well.

Great site with a bunch of great members. I'm sure as my testing goes on I'll be back to pick your brains...Hopefully I'll also be back to post a Muzzleloader Success Story come September!!!

In the mean time, be safe, shoot straight!!!

 

[montveil]

fouling shots

I like the responses but in the real world do you hunt with:

A fouled barrel?
a clean barrel?

If you foul a barrel before hunting and do not fire it how do you keep the barrel from rusting?

If you foul the barrel before going out I suppose you fire the unfired load at the end of the day.

It seems like a lot of trouble, why not take the clean barrel performance for hunting?

 

[Bill]

A fouled barrel is a rusted, pitted barrel in a humid climate, unless you are shooting Blackhorn. Real BP, Pyrodex and T7 leaves crud, up to 50% of its volume in your barrel. This crap is hygroscopic and draws moisture like a sponge, especially real black and Pyrodex. T7 is a little more forgiving. I spent a lot of time shooting rocklocks and that tends to make you anal about fouling!
When I'm working up a load, I use a lead sled with fifty pounds of shot. Takes a lot of the human error out of the equation. When I do do final sight in, I thoroughly clean the barrel with up to 5 patches (alcohol or Windex) between shots to establish a clean barrel zero. If I miss a shot in the field(God Forbid!), I follow the same cleaning procedure. My rifles are kept in a unheated building during the season with a load in the barrel. With Blackhorn, I plan to treat the rifles like a center-fire and hunt with fouled bore, since the powder residue is non-corrosive.

 

[Anonymous]

I ALWAYS hunt on a clean bore. I "sight in" the Whites as such. If you have a loose conical that you're afraid of slipping off the charge,,use a larger diameter bullet. So far,,the bullets I cast and size fit just perfectly in the Wilson barrels of my Super 91s. Range sessions tell me where the second bullet (if necessary) will hit. Oftentimes,,,it's the same place... :wink:

 

[frontier gander]

i sight dead on at 100 and then take a mental note of where my shots hit at 125 and 150 yards.

Hunt on a clean bore and leave that same load in until i either fire it or if i have hunted in really bad weather, i'll fire it off and clean the bore.

After firing a shot at an animal, i reload ASAP. You'll need to know where your rifle will shot on a fouled barrel if you should need 2 or even 3 shots at the same animal.

Lat year and the year before i shot my animals, reloaded and left the fouling in the bore for 3-4 days before the season was over. You really dont have to worry about moisture in colorado. Especially up north.

I choose one bullet, one powder charge, one powder type and one ignition source.
I use that load and i will switch the simple things first, such as my ignition source, and swap that to a different brand and take 3 more shots on a clean bore and shoot a group of 3 to see if the new source helped my groups or made it worse.

I Usually wait a couple minutes between shots, but during hunting season, its pretty cool outside and never had to worry about the barrel heat.

My charges for conicals is 80g pyrodex P / pyrodex select/ triple 7 (when i use it)

I use it with all the conicals i shoot from 195g up to over 400 grain. I like a load that is comfortable to shoot. Also easy on the pocket book as i do not use up powder as quickly.

 

[Underclocked]

I've taken up Bat's method of hunting a clean barrel but none of my Whites vary a heck of a lot from clean to fouled. I'm a far greater threat to accuracy than a little fouling.

Also, I have to scream and holler to get the cows out of the way before shooting.