200 Grain Shockwave

[Squeeze]

A few years back, before I started messing with computers or forums, I shot probably at least 5 deer with every one of those unliked , bad performance bullets. (I shoot 3-7 deer legally a year, plus an occasional cull hunt, where its quite possible to shoot 10-20 deer a day for the state, or a farmer with depredation permits) I shot whatever I found available that was accurate in my gun of the moment then. Mostly shorter ranges though. I dont think Ive ever recovered any bullet in a deer ever. even cast soft lead went through (left a swath of destruction like a cannonball, so testing was..minimal.)
I dont remember ever loosing a deer I shot either, but Im pretty determined, and experienced at tracking. I remember quite a few deer others gave up on tracking, claiming a miss, or "the deer will probably survive" I said "show me where you shot", or lost the track, and kept on usually finding them a little further on. I believe most deer if hit, and theres a followable blood trail, dont survive. They can take an amazing beating and push on. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that they just dont have the smarts to know, this is terminal, and their dying effort is to put the most ground they can between you, and hide the best they can at the drop. (many times after just a huge circle, and they are found very close to where they were shot) I hold more regard for shot placement. A good shot with a poor bullet, in my book, beats a poor shot with the best. If you want to be out there sending hail marys, after sending at best 3 shots a year at the range. (I see a lot of this around me) you better be a lot more determined on the blood trail. Just because the trail goes into the thick stuff, or its getting dark, doesnt mean the deer probably will survive) Many deer ive tracked, after a while the blood peters out. Ive seen many holes plug up with fat, or organs and bleed entirely internally.
Ive found quite a few by going back the next morning, and just walking a grid pattern past the last known trail or sighting.

 

[Busta]

Never had any deer run off complaining that I ever shot with any Shockwave or SST bullet in any weight. Not for more than 60 yards, anyway. I don't take long range, or low percentage shots on deer though.

The 200 grain is my favorite, and I have shot the most deer with that weight. I have only recovered one under the off side hide after going through the boiler room and both front shoulders @ 115 yards. The charge was 100 grains of Black Mag'3.

We hash this out every year. I have determined that the bullets that were found in dead deer that didn't expand, were either shot with pellets, using the red Low Drag Sabots, or both. If you use pellets with Low Drag Sabots or any loose fitting sabot, your bullet might be moving down the bore, and never fully obturate the sabot into the bores rifling. Your bullet will only be propelled at a much lower velocity than it was designed to be shot at, thus the non or poorly expanding bullets. Ironically, they all still killed the deer.

Use a good loose powder like Swiss, Pyrodex, Triple Se7en, and my favorite Blackhorn 209 without the Low Drag Sabots, and you should never have a problem. The Low Drag or any loose fitting sabot may work ok during the warm weather, but throw in the cold weather and those sabots may be way to loose.

Some here never miss an opportunity to try to bring discredit to the Shockwaves. Yet, they bought an expensive rifle that only shoots expensive overpriced pellets, and wait for it, expensive overpriced REBRANDED SHOCKWAVE/SST's. You just can't make this stuff up!

I've shot enough (30+) deer with the Shockwaves/SST's to know better. Every exit always showed signs of expansion, and the one bullet I recovered definitely expanded. However, I don't use pellets or Low Drag Sabots. The 200gr Shockwaves are an outstanding deer bullet in my experience. YMMV? If you are having trouble anchoring deer with any Shockwave/SST bullet, I think the first place you should be looking is in the mirror. I think you'll find your answer there!

 

[ENCORE50A]

Never had any deer run off complaining that I ever shot with any Shockwave or SST bullet in any weight. Not for more than 60 yards, anyway. I don't take long range, or low percentage shots on deer though.

The 200 grain is my favorite, and I have shot the most deer with that weight. I have only recovered one under the off side hide after going through the boiler room and both front shoulders @ 115 yards. The charge was 100 grains of Black Mag'3.

We hash this out every year. I have determined that the bullets that were found in dead deer that didn't expand, were either shot with pellets, using the red Low Drag Sabots, or both. If you use pellets with Low Drag Sabots or any loose fitting sabot, your bullet might be moving down the bore, and never fully obturate the sabot into the bores rifling. Your bullet will only be propelled at a much lower velocity than it was designed to be shot at, thus the non or poorly expanding bullets. Ironically, they all still killed the deer.

Use a good loose powder like Swiss, Pyrodex, Triple Se7en, and my favorite Blackhorn 209 without the Low Drag Sabots, and you should never have a problem. The Low Drag or any loose fitting sabot may work ok during the warm weather, but throw in the cold weather and those sabots may be way to loose.

Some here never miss an opportunity to try to bring discredit to the Shockwaves. Yet, they bought an expensive rifle that only shoots expensive overpriced pellets, and wait for it, expensive overpriced REBRANDED SHOCKWAVE/SST's. You just can't make this stuff up!

I've shot enough (30+) deer with the Shockwaves/SST's to know better. Every exit always showed signs of expansion, and the one bullet I recovered definitely expanded. However, I don't use pellets or Low Drag Sabots. The 200gr Shockwaves are an outstanding deer bullet in my experience. YMMV? If you are having trouble anchoring deer with any Shockwave/SST bullet, I think the first place you should be looking is in the mirror. I think you'll find your answer there!

You had copies of all the photos shown here and other photos I believe from another forum. IIRC someone was willing to send you one of those bullets too. You were going to Hornady and ask for an explanation and report back to that forum. You didn't report back in that forum about Hornady's findings/results. You haven't reported Hornady's findings/results here. You reported, "I determined...." giving two scenarios.

You don't have to indicate, "some", you're CLEARLY pointing the finger at me with the underlined statement above and I WILL NOT get into a tit-for-tat. It still doesn't explain away the problems some shooters have indicated with this specific bullet, or provide an answer from Hornady either.

 

[Busta]

ENCORE50A,

Sorry, but you didn't remember correctly. You also make a lot of assumptions.

That must really suck having to hunt with a bullet you have lost a deer with? I don't seem to have that problem, hunting with the same bullets. Like I said, look in the mirror first, it will make your job tracking down the problem much shorter.

There are lots of hunters out there that have no idea what they are doing loading a muzzleloader. Some have never owned a powder measure, or even know what it is or looks like. All they know is drop the pellets down the barrel, and they want the easiest loading bullet. A recipe for a very disappointing experience in the field. They go to a big box store and rely on the 18 year old expert to tell them what they should be shooting. Then when things don't work out right, it is much easier to blame the bullet, rifle, powder, primer, breech plug, etc,. When the real problem was looking them in the face every morning.

Every one of those bullets that didn't expand were either shot with pellets, low drag sabots, or both. It's not hard to come to a conclusion, given the details. Sorry, but if you have ever had a Shockwave/SST/Smackdown/Whitetail Medicine ever pencil through a deer, you need to go back and start at the mirror again. You have a problem somewhere with your load developement, where that bullet is not moving at the velocity required. Probably due to poor powder choice (pellets), sabot choice too loose for the temperature, or you are not using the proper ignition choice for your powder.

There is a definite learning curve to muzzleloading, unfortunately not all people visit forums such as this one to shorten that curve. They rely on the 18 year old expert at the big box store. Just the way it is!


Sorry Ron, but you know I really like this 200 grain Shockwave. I even use it in my pistol @ under 1510 FPS. The bullet has never failed to expand or kill at any muzzleloader speed I have shot them at. Kills 'em dead!

 

[ENCORE50A]

ENCORE50A,

Sorry, but you didn't remember correctly. You also make a lot of assumptions.

That must really suck having to hunt with a bullet you have lost a deer with? I don't seem to have that problem, hunting with the same bullets. Like I said, look in the mirror first, it will make your job tracking down the problem much shorter.

There are lots of hunters out there that have no idea what they are doing loading a muzzleloader. Some have never owned a powder measure, or even know what it is or looks like. All they know is drop the pellets down the barrel, and they want the easiest loading bullet. A recipe for a very disappointing experience in the field. They go to a big box store and rely on the 18 year old expert to tell them what they should be shooting. Then when things don't work out right, it is much easier to blame the bullet, rifle, powder, primer, breech plug, etc,. When the real problem was looking them in the face every morning.

Every one of those bullets that didn't expand were either shot with pellets, low drag sabots, or both. It's not hard to come to a conclusion, given the details. Sorry, but if you have ever had a Shockwave/SST/Smackdown/Whitetail Medicine ever pencil through a deer, you need to go back and start at the mirror again. You have a problem somewhere with your load developement, where that bullet is not moving at the velocity required. Probably due to poor powder choice (pellets), sabot choice too loose for the temperature, or you are not using the proper ignition choice for your powder.

There is a definite learning curve to muzzleloading, unfortunately not all people visit forums such as this one to shorten that curve. They rely on the 18 year old expert at the big box store. Just the way it is!


Sorry Ron, but you know I really like this 200 grain Shockwave. I even use it in my pistol @ under 1510 FPS. The bullet has never failed to expand or kill at any muzzleloader speed I have shot them at. Kills 'em dead!

November 30, 2014 Busta: "However, I have finally seen what I needed to see in this thread. Proof, that some of these bullets are not opening up on some shots. I don't know if it is because of something in the manufacturing process, bullets not hitting the deer at the velocity required, or what? I would like to get permission from both kneedeep and bowhunter42 to copy and use your pictures of those bullets. If you have more pictures, either closer, different angles, more in focus, I would like to have those as well. What I would like to do is, contact Hornady to see what they have to say about this."

November 30, 2014 to Busta: "I just checked though my bullet box and only found that powerjunk bullet and a bunch of Barnes. Busta, you're welcome to use that photo of mine showing the Shockwaves if you'd like. I understand they weren't recovered from an animal but, use them if you'd like."

November 30, 2014 Busta: "Thanks to kneedeep, and hopefully bowhunter42 and chuckinduck for the use of their pics as well. If there are more, I would be glad to see them as well. I want bullets shot into animals only. Hornady has some 'splaining to do."


Yup, it looks like I didn't remember correctly?

Just wondering, did Hornady ever do their "splaining"?

I most certainly don't have a problem looking into a mirror or, hunting whitetail and making the correct shots. A staggering number of whitetail have fallen to many of my muzzleloaders.

I would suggest that any other trivial bickering, be done through PM.

 

[Busta]

You forgot the rest of the story. I never asked anyone for a bullet, nor did anyone ever offer to send me one. So you didn't remember correctly.

After further investigation and information, we determined that these bullets were all either shot with pellets, low drag sabots, or both. Mostly by young or inexperienced muzzleloading hunters. It doesn't take Rocket Science to figure out where things went wrong at that point. I won't bother to go back and drag information in here from another forum just to prove you wrong though.

Funny, how a little bit of information and background helps educate the majority in what not to do. Unfortunately, some others have to learn the hard way. But most will blame it on the bullet instead of their lack of preparation with the components in the elements that they will be hunting in.

 

[rwbaker]

ENCORE50A,

Sorry, but you didn't remember correctly. You also make a lot of assumptions.

That must really suck having to hunt with a bullet you have lost a deer with? I don't seem to have that problem, hunting with the same bullets. Like I said, look in the mirror first, it will make your job tracking down the problem much shorter.

There are lots of hunters out there that have no idea what they are doing loading a muzzleloader. Some have never owned a powder measure, or even know what it is or looks like. All they know is drop the pellets down the barrel, and they want the easiest loading bullet. A recipe for a very disappointing experience in the field. They go to a big box store and rely on the 18 year old expert to tell them what they should be shooting. Then when things don't work out right, it is much easier to blame the bullet, rifle, powder, primer, breech plug, etc,. When the real problem was looking them in the face every morning.

Every one of those bullets that didn't expand were either shot with pellets, low drag sabots, or both. It's not hard to come to a conclusion, given the details. Sorry, but if you have ever had a Shockwave/SST/Smackdown/Whitetail Medicine ever pencil through a deer, you need to go back and start at the mirror again. You have a problem somewhere with your load developement, where that bullet is not moving at the velocity required. Probably due to poor powder choice (pellets), sabot choice too loose for the temperature, or you are not using the proper ignition choice for your powder.

There is a definite learning curve to muzzleloading, unfortunately not all people visit forums such as this one to shorten that curve. They rely on the 18 year old expert at the big box store. Just the way it is!


Sorry Ron, but you know I really like this 200 grain Shockwave. I even use it in my pistol @ under 1510 FPS. The bullet has never failed to expand or kill at any muzzleloader speed I have shot them at. Kills 'em dead!

+1 All I shoot is Hornady I shoot 300sst with the red sabot or ez sabot by mmp in my encore tight bore. 100 grains of bh never had a problem I wish they never came out with pellets they loose there power just sitting on the self.

 

[ohiostate]

are you goin test any 458 dia bullets??? I got the bullets if somebody has the sabots?? got the horn 325 FTX horn 300HP and 350 FP thanks Michael