.32 caliber inline

[toytruck]

Where are Traditions made? Looks cheap....

Spain

Alrighty then.. uke:
I withdraw my vote for one, no longer interested. Thanks, I will just keep on using the White shotgun an my 10/22 Ruger .22LR

 

[WV Hunter]

Their bolt actions are ok for the price but they most certainly are not built at the quality level of a Knight. As Shawn pointed out, it is more of a plunger design than a bolt action. Earlier in this post I said that is Traditions was going to build a .32 inline my vote would be for a shorter barreled break action, I stand by that statement.

After seeing how that bolt action is set up, and looking over the break action rifle on their website...my gut is I'm inclined to lean towards the break action also. The Pursuit Ultralight weighs 5.75 lbs and looks pretty decent as black/cerakote.

Truthfully, I'd rather Knight would step up and make one. I'd gladly pay much more for a top quality rifle. But I'm sure that is a pipe dream.

 

[ShawnT]

I see UpperHand answered the questions asked. As he mentioned this rifle was his. Since I had thought of using one as for a build he offered and I accepted. I know I just can't seem to help myself. :lol:

I have no clue how much blow back it will have. I was thinking today about trying to locate some .45 cal balls locally so I can just load up a light load of say 25 grains of Pyrodex P just to see what the blow back will be like. I am not too sure any one around here will have any though.

The List Price on the Traditions site for a new Evolution 50 cal is $314 Black Cerakote. https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/prod ... k-cerakote. So no it is not a Knight, and not even in the same price point. It seems to be decently made for the price point it is probably selling for, similar to other plunger rifles in this class. I think that it will be fine for a .32. I already built one on an imported plunger action.

When Traditions was mentioned as the only one interested in talking about a run of .32s, I looked at their site and saw they still built a "Bolt Action". Since I like Bolt actions I mentioned it. Sad thing is there is really nothing on their site or even the Downloadable manual that indicated "How" the Bolt functions. I personally just assumed it was a real Bolt action like we normally think of one. I had been looking at these for a few months and even chatted with one other poster, who has one in 50cal, that I have not heard or seen post for a while. He sent some pictures to me but they still did not show how it worked. At that time I was mostly interested in the fact that the barrel and action were 2 pieces and had a setscrew to retain the barrel. But again I could not get info telling me if the barrel was screwed in or a slip in then the set screw just was for final security. This part I still am not sure of and maybe I can figure it out this weekend. I have a small work bench and already have a shotgun refinish on it so not sure I can look at it. It does not look like the barrel is screwed in from what little I can see and I am thinking it was a slip fit that is glued/Loctited in and the setscrew is just to hold it while the glue set up. Again just my assumption at this Point.

So Since I was the one that brought up the Evolution (Just as my thought) I figured I should show the members what these really are. Yes I was disappointed in how this works. Sometimes you just have to lay your hands on one to see it for yourself.

A Break action might be ok but I personally had a couple that just turned me off to them. IF they could build one that has a light contour barrel with a good fitting Forend and locks up Tight, It would be ok. The other thing that gets me with Break action is that they are normally to long LOP for me. One of the other things that always bothered me about a Traditions Break action is that it seems they all have Alloy actions and that is a turn off to me. In a .32 it would probably be ok since it will really have no recoil to stress it.

So Hopefully Muzzle-Loader will see these last posts and chime in and maybe he can go back to Traditions with some of the new concerns. Maybe he can ask about a Break action if that is what the consensus wants. Once other new concern for Muzzle-Loader to ask about is if Traditions would make the new BP Flat Faced on the powder side. This plug would not work well as the Ball would drop down into it and the bore would be smaller than this cavity in this one.

Here is the BP for you Mike, they may not show up great.

 

[WV Hunter]

Good additional points Shawn, and thanks for the pic of the BP. Keep us posted if you happen to get out and shoot it.

 

[ShawnT]

Their bolt actions are ok for the price but they most certainly are not built at the quality level of a Knight. As Shawn pointed out, it is more of a plunger design than a bolt action. Earlier in this post I said that is Traditions was going to build a .32 inline my vote would be for a shorter barreled break action, I stand by that statement.

After seeing how that bolt action is set up, and looking over the break action rifle on their website...my gut is I'm inclined to lean towards the break action also. The Pursuit Ultralight weighs 5.75 lbs and looks pretty decent as black/cerakote.

Truthfully, I'd rather Knight would step up and make one. I'd gladly pay much more for a top quality rifle. But I'm sure that is a pipe dream.

With that Pursuit, if they were to taper the barrel down after the pivot point and make a matching forend that accommodates the new contour, they could save even more weight (than the 5.75lb) with a 24" barrel. No real reason I can see why they could not do it. I was more afraid that they would just use a Blank from a 50 and bore it to .32 cal. That would add more weight than you might think and just cutting off a couple inches in length would not get you much back. It might be best for a "Blow Back Free" Action.

The only thing I would want to know is more about that butt stock, such as LOP and if it has a Cheep Piece. Long LOP with a Cheek piece don't lend to well to being shortened, been there tried that.

Still it would not be out of the question for me either if done right. Might even be the best option for sale to the masses too. Who knows.

 

[ShawnT]

Good additional points Shawn, and thanks for the pic of the BP. Keep us posted if you happen to get out and shoot it.

I just have to try to find some RBs to use. Long Island don't offer that much for the traditional shooters.

 

[Upper Hand]

Their bolt actions are ok for the price but they most certainly are not built at the quality level of a Knight. As Shawn pointed out, it is more of a plunger design than a bolt action. Earlier in this post I said that is Traditions was going to build a .32 inline my vote would be for a shorter barreled break action, I stand by that statement.

To elaborate...I've owned several Traditions rifles over the years and they were all good shooters. That said I was never a fan of their fit and finish. If they are the only company willing to consider building a production 32 I wouldn't expect features like tapered barrels that Ive never seen used on any other of their rifles. Put bluntly, I see the end product an economically produced shooter. If they were to use their standard 1" diameter blank having a 22" break action would balance a bit better than putting that 22" in front of 6" of an action.

 

[ShawnT]

Their bolt actions are ok for the price but they most certainly are not built at the quality level of a Knight. As Shawn pointed out, it is more of a plunger design than a bolt action. Earlier in this post I said that is Traditions was going to build a .32 inline my vote would be for a shorter barreled break action, I stand by that statement.

If they are the only company willing to consider building a production 32 I wouldn't expect features like tapered barrels that Ive never seen used on any other of their rifles. Put bluntly, I see the end product an economically produced shooter. If they were to use their standard 1" diameter blank having a 22" break action would balance a bit better than putting that 22" in front of 6" of an action.

I agree with you but I would at least "Hope" they would at least entertain the idea that the tapering of the barrel contour would be a big benefit. Even H&R/NEF does it in their rifles. Taking a 1" diameter blank used for a 50cal and just boring a small 32cal bore will leave a lot of meat left on that barrel. My Little LK-93 36cal was done that very way with just a shortened barrel (21" and is over 8# with scope). It is still much heavier than it needs to be, but it was also a limited run. Shortening would definitely help in the balance but I think weight will still be more that I would want. Unless they can get that weight down even on the break action I think it will still be heavy and that might hurt it in sales. If this turned out to be just a limited run I can understand just re-vamping something they already have but if it is for a Regular Production rifle not so much.

 

[rangerod]

I would certainly think that building a gun for normal production any manufacturer had better pay attention to the attributes the gun needs to make it sale. Attributes for example discussed on this thread on this forum. In the case of a break action gun look at the poor hinge fit problems the Redemption had. Inability to fit a scope for eye relief. Primers sticking in the adapter. It seems like once a gun gets a certain bad reputation that reputation sticks even if you later fix those problems. I hope if this build happens it turns out to be a great gun for Traditions and the customers who buy it. Stop for a second and think about it. A unique light weight squirrel gun .32 caliber that can shoot lights out. An inline no less. Something that fits a niche in the market that no one else offers. Maybe I sound a little like a chearleader but I would really like to see this happen. :applause:

 

[Squeeze]

spring wire to hold the primer in the BP? compression clips holding the bolt together. bolt/ plunger... Traditions. my enthusiasm is dwindling

 

[ShawnT]

compression clips holding the bolt together.

What Compression Clips? :huh?:

Last thing I did notice was that the side cuts in the end of the BP, I suppose those are "Vents", also went down a little deep into the primer pocket. Enough so that they go a few thou below the bottom. So when a Primer is pressed to the bottom of the pocket you can still see a little daylight. That would mean that there will be a little blowback just from the primer. Not sure why they thought they needed that much venting. :huh?: Don't know if that is just this plug or if the new one is this way. When I get a few RB's I will try it as is and with an oring.

 

[GM54-120]

Even though im not a fan of break actions, the new G4 UltraLight in 32cal might be very interesting. Especially if a lighter barrel contour is possible. Personally i don't think there is much to gain with a barrel over about 22". A shorter and slimmer contour barrel could possibly get that 5.75lbs to just under 5lbs.

 

[ShawnT]

Even though im not a fan of break actions, the new G4 UltraLight in 32cal might be very interesting. Especially if a lighter barrel contour is possible. Personally i don't think there is much to gain with a barrel over about 22". A shorter and slimmer contour barrel could possibly get that 5.75lbs to just under 5lbs.

I was just looking at this G4 and it Is supposed to be a tapered and Fluted barrel on the 50 cal. So I don't see why they could not do it. None of the info sources I've looked at state the LOP though.

 

[52Bore]

compression clips holding the bolt together.

What Compression Clips? :huh?:

Last thing I did notice was that the side cuts in the end of the BP, I suppose those are "Vents", also went down a little deep into the primer pocket. Enough so that they go a few thou below the bottom. So when a Primer is pressed to the bottom of the pocket you can still see a little daylight. That would mean that there will be a little blowback just from the primer. Not sure why they thought they needed that much venting. :huh?: Don't know if that is just this plug or if the new one is this way. When I get a few RB's I will try it as is and with an oring.

I know this Traditions Thunderbolt 45, 1:20 might be a little off topic, but I see you are considering for a build. I have one and it had the same breech plug. I bored it out and pressed a steel plug so it was flat at the breech face. Shot 85gr Swiss 2F and 450gr GG bullet - about 1.5" at 100 was all I could do. Blow-back in breech area was bad with plunger style bolt - but this was kind of a big load for this gun. Cute little gun with a hollow stock, so it could be much lighter with a thinner barrel.
You could plug the existing breech plug and make it to utilize a vent liner...

Looked at Knight weights.
1# for trigger assy, bolt assy, breech plug and ramrod (these 32's might need a solid rod?)
2.5# for T-hole composite stock (lightest one they have, except UL)
0.5# for action
3.5# for thin 27" taper oct OAL, 32cal barrel (taper 0.860"-0.720") <upper hands 28" bbl OAL was 4.4#, taper 0.970"-0.800> = 0.13 and 0.15 pounds/inch of barrel weight respectively.
No way to get a Knight close to 6#, probably not under 7#

 

[WV Hunter]

Hey 52...that makes sense, but I wonder how Green Mountain did it? Theirs was supposedly under 6lb (w/o scope), and built off the knight disc platform. :huh?: :huh?: I think it had a 22" barrel, so that would cut some down for sure, but I doubt over 1lb.

I sure wish they (or knight) would make a limited run ... I know they could sell a bunch fast.

 

[ShawnT]

compression clips holding the bolt together.

What Compression Clips? :huh?:

Last thing I did notice was that the side cuts in the end of the BP, I suppose those are "Vents", also went down a little deep into the primer pocket. Enough so that they go a few thou below the bottom. So when a Primer is pressed to the bottom of the pocket you can still see a little daylight. That would mean that there will be a little blowback just from the primer. Not sure why they thought they needed that much venting. :huh?: Don't know if that is just this plug or if the new one is this way. When I get a few RB's I will try it as is and with an oring.

I know this Traditions Thunderbolt 45, 1:20 might be a little off topic, but I see you are considering for a build. I have one and it had the same breech plug. I bored it out and pressed a steel plug so it was flat at the breech face. Shot 85gr Swiss 2F and 450gr GG bullet - about 1.5" at 100 was all I could do. Blow-back in breech area was bad with plunger style bolt - but this was kind of a big load for this gun. Cute little gun with a hollow stock, so it could be much lighter with a thinner barrel.
You could plug the existing breech plug and make it to utilize a vent liner...

Looked at Knight weights.
1# for trigger assy, bolt assy, breech plug and ramrod (these 32's might need a solid rod?)
2.5# for T-hole composite stock (lightest one they have, except UL)
0.5# for action
3.5# for thin 27" taper oct OAL, 32cal barrel (taper 0.860"-0.720") <upper hands 28" bbl OAL was 4.4#, taper 0.970"-0.800> = 0.13 and 0.15 pounds/inch of barrel weight respectively.
No way to get a Knight close to 6#, probably not under 7#

Thanks for the weights. I had thought about a Knight build too. When I saw this Traditions I thought it was a regular bolt action and is why I was considering it for the build. I am not to crazy about it at the moment since it is not what I thought it was. I think I would just make a whole new plug for it too. I am not crazy for the primer pocket design either. It might not be too bad for a 32 since you only need about 20 grains of powder but as is will leak even from just the primer firing. I plan to try just a PRB with 20 grains of pyrodex P on Sunday just to see what the blow back will be like. Since I already have a 32 that I built I am in no real hurry and will take my time deciding how the next one is done, unless a run from traditions happens and I like the config.

 

[ShawnT]

52bore,

Do you happen to recall if the barrel was threaded or just a slip fit with some loctite?

 

[GM54-120]

Hey 52...that makes sense, but I wonder how Green Mountain did it? Theirs was supposedly under 6lb (w/o scope), and built off the knight disc platform. :huh?: :huh?: I think it had a 22" barrel, so that would cut some down for sure, but I doubt over 1lb.

I sure wish they (or knight) would make a limited run ... I know they could sell a bunch fast.

The rifle in the above photo remains one of my favorite all-time in-line ignition muzzleloaders - a Limited Edition .32 caliber offered by Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co. for a very short period of time. Complete with Redfield scope bases and a 3-9x 1" diameter tube variable scope aboard, this rig still barely weighs 6 1/2 pounds. It is a real delight to carry all morning during a September or October squirrel hunt...or, where rifles are permitted, to go after a spring gobbler. Most of all...it is one of the most enjoyable rifles I've ever shot from the bench.

GMB certainly did do it. Im still sick about not grabbing one when i had the chance. They would have been a real hoot to play with just using a 209 mag primer in a bare primer conversion. Over 350fps with just a primer. Talk about fun and minimal clean up.

 

[ShawnT]

Hey 52...that makes sense, but I wonder how Green Mountain did it? Theirs was supposedly under 6lb (w/o scope), and built off the knight disc platform. :huh?: :huh?: I think it had a 22" barrel, so that would cut some down for sure, but I doubt over 1lb.

I sure wish they (or knight) would make a limited run ... I know they could sell a bunch fast.

The rifle in the above photo remains one of my favorite all-time in-line ignition muzzleloaders - a Limited Edition .32 caliber offered by Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co. for a very short period of time. Complete with Redfield scope bases and a 3-9x 1" diameter tube variable scope aboard, this rig still barely weighs 6 1/2 pounds. It is a real delight to carry all morning during a September or October squirrel hunt...or, where rifles are permitted, to go after a spring gobbler. Most of all...it is one of the most enjoyable rifles I've ever shot from the bench.

GMB certainly did do it. Im still sick about not grabbing one when i had the chance. They would have been a real hoot to play with just using a 209 mag primer in a bare primer conversion. Over 350fps with just a primer. Talk about fun and minimal clean up.

Yes they did, Here is some more Eye Candy. Just wish it were mine.

 

[52Bore]

The only GM-32 I held in my hands had a internal barrel action just like Knights. The biggest thing I noticed when I picked it up was the SMALL size of the stock. Shorter LOP, shorter/thinner forend, SMALL grip. I told the Knight guys -this is what a stock should feel like! I've always felt the Boyds are clubs.
I called GM while doing UpperHands to see if they could direct my as to who made the stock - no one knows. They told me to call Pecatonica - don't know either. Fagen was suspected - which is long gone.
I did not get any dimension, just handled if for a few minutes. I mainly recall the small stock! That is probably where they succeeded with 6#, along with a more tapered bbl.
Being that the action diameter is the same; 1.080". The octagon radius started from here so it's nearly a full 1" across the flats. I'd bet the taper is more with the muzzle being near 3/4", which will help with weight along with being a little shorter.
I noticed from the photos posted, the forend is shorter than 1/2 the barrel length (octagon) which might put it at only 8-10" long compared to a current Knight at 12-14" long. Also, there is a recess in the stock under the bolt - bet they were reducing weight even more to get it under 6.