BH209 to swab or not?

[bronko220002]

GM54-120 and myself had a bit of a difference of opinion on whether to swab or not to swab using BH209. Also a difference of opinion with accuracy. So today was beautiful, 35* sunny and no wind so I decided to do a bit of shooting on my own with my 700ML. Load was 75gr by weight of BH209 (100 gr volume) and a Barnes 250 gr Expander MZ in a Harvester black CR sabot. Now keep in mind my rifle was not sighted in with BH209 but with Alliant Black MZ. I get much better accuracy by better than half with the Black MZ. Considering that's a 6" target without measuring, both those groups are in the neighborhood of 3" Pretty ugly when you're used to 1" - 1 1/5" groups. Below are the two targets. One without swabbing (one primer shot for fouling) and the other with swabbing.
Apparently based on this limited testing there is no difference between either target with maybe a very very slight edge for swabbing - nothing significant.

 

[GM54-120]

And with BH209 have you tried another sabot like a Harvester smooth instead? Quite possible that BH209 will shoot better with a slightly tighter sabot. That Barnes with a CR sabot is a pretty loose fit in most bores.

 

[bronko220002]

Its not loose. I thumb start the bullet/sabot to almost flush. Then it takes a good amount of force to get it down over the charge. Once seated I put all my weight into the ramrod to try and maintain consistent compression.
I just got done cleaning the rifle so I'll pull the BP again and try running a bullet through with the smooth sabot. I'll do it right now and let you know the results.
That's another thing. Cleaning after BH209. I heard it was easier than other subs. No way! I did use Hoppes #9 and a brass brush and patches. I must have ran 50 patches through that bore to get one to come out spotless alternating between 1 wet and 3 dry. Then finally running a bore snake through it with Montana Xtreme Bore Conditioner.
I don't mind cleaning my guns. Its part of the experience and I'll continue to try BH209 varying bullets and charges etc. I might find something that works. I need something to replace my Black MZ. But I have 10 lbs on hand which will last me a while.

 

[MrTom]

Come on over to SE Minnesota and sit out there deciding whether to swab or not. The hi for today is right now at 4 degrees.

Damn I'm envious of you guys that can still shoot at the range and not get frost bite. I'm sitting on a Patriot ready to go smokeless with all the goodies and its too friggin cold to hit the range. Maybe I'll wait until around ten tonight and slip out the garage door and let one rip just to hear what smokeless sounds like. The neighborhood needs some excitement. lol

 

[bronko220002]

Ok here's the consensus. I didn't have a Harvester smooth black sabot but I did have one by MMP. Both loaded with about equal pressure. Then just for kicks I tried a Barnes 300 gr TSX in an orang MMP sabot. That took a lot more pressure to load.
That may be worth a try. I did take 2 videos but I can't upload them!

 

[GM54-120]

Trick to getting BH209 fouling out quicker is run a dry patch all the way thru once. Push out the bulk before using solvents. Bunch of fouling and a bunch of liquid just make a bunch of mud.

 

[bronko220002]

GM Here's the 2 videos. They were initially too large to upload so I had to cut them so I could. You can see the difference, or lack of, between the Harvester CR and the MMP smooth. And then the 2nd video with the orange MMP and a .458" Barnes bullet. That combo may be worth a try next outing. That is really tight.

 

[SteveH]

Trick to getting BH209 fouling out quicker is run a dry patch all the way thru once. Push out the bulk before using solvents. Bunch of fouling and a bunch of liquid just make a bunch of mud.

+100
I shot BH209 for a couple of years before I figured this out. +90% of the crud is taken out with one dry patch (use both sides) and then 2-3 patches with your favorite gun solvent does the job.

And my very unscientific experience showed basically no difference by swabbing between shots.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Ask the guys that compete rather they swab between rounds............

 

[10acres]

I went out and sighted my CVA Optima V2 in today using 75g weighed of BH209 and the 290g Hornady Bore Driver. I didn’t swab between shots and had shots that were almost touching at 75 yards. I shot 9 shots this way and then ran 3 dry patches front and back down the bore. I let the barrel cool which didn’t take long at 28 degrees and fired off one last shot. It was right where I wanted it to be, an inch high and left/right was good to go. If I was shooting long ranges, I would swab between shots, but where I hunt it is not needed.

 

[bronko220002]

Well like I said and the targets to back it up there is not really any big difference between swabbing and not. I don't plan on giving up on BH yet. Glad I posted this because I didn't know about running a dry patch first before cleaning. Will do that next time. That will sure save a lot of elbow grease! I'm also going to take GM's advice and try a tighter load combo. That orange MMP and a .458" bullet is the tightest combo I have on hand so we'll see if accuracy improves.

 

[bronko220002]

And with BH209 have you tried another sabot like a Harvester smooth instead? Quite possible that BH209 will shoot better with a slightly tighter sabot. That Barnes with a CR sabot is a pretty loose fit in most bores.

LOL....That would be one way to have the cops show up.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Trick to getting BH209 fouling out quicker is run a dry patch all the way thru once. Push out the bulk before using solvents. Bunch of fouling and a bunch of liquid just make a bunch of mud.

Even easier, and quicker is start with a wet patch with a water based cleaner typically used to clean black powder or 777. A couple dry patches, then another wet patch, and a dry patch. Then a wet patch using a Blackhorn solvent, followed by a dry patch.

The hard stuff on the breech plug when shooting Blackhorn comes right off when using a black powder or 777 water based cleaning solution.

This method makes cleaning Blackhorn as easy as cleaning 777.

 

[.45er]

GM54-120 and myself had a bit of a difference of opinion on whether to swab or not to swab using BH209. Also a difference of opinion with accuracy. So today was beautiful, 35* sunny and no wind so I decided to do a bit of shooting on my own with my 700ML. Load was 75gr by weight of BH209 (100 gr volume) and a Barnes 250 gr Expander MZ in a Harvester black CR sabot. Now keep in mind my rifle was not sighted in with BH209 but with Alliant Black MZ. I get much better accuracy by better than half with the Black MZ. Considering that's a 6" target without measuring, both those groups are in the neighborhood of 3" Pretty ugly when you're used to 1" - 1 1/5" groups. Below are the two targets. One without swabbing (one primer shot for fouling) and the other with swabbing.
Apparently based on this limited testing there is no difference between either target with maybe a very very slight edge for swabbing - nothing significant.

I hunt with a clean barrel. At the range when sighting-in I'll run a dry patch down the barrel twice between shots. For storage it's a few patches soaked with Hopppes 9 wrapped around a brass brush, then dry patches until clean. That's my SOP I've settled-on with BH209.

 

[DavidAR10T]

I hunt with a clean barrel. At the range when sighting-in I'll run a dry patch down the barrel twice between shots. For storage it's a few patches soaked with Hopppes 9 wrapped around a brass brush, then dry patches until clean. That's my SOP I've settled-on with BH209.

Roger That with H9 and Bronze Phosphor brush. (I'm a ProShot man, don't want no FOP).
I'm going to give my three 4oz bottles of Montana X-treme BH 209 solvent a try for 2023.

Ask the guys that compete rather they swab between rounds............

I thought competition was a pure BP shindig and BP substitutes were considered shenanigins.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Roger That with H9 and Bronze Phosphor brush. (I'm a ProShot man, don't want no FOP).
I'm going to give my three 4oz bottles of Montana X-treme BH 209 solvent a try for 2023.

I thought competition was a pure BP shindig and BP substitutes were considered shenanigins.

Nope, not at all. Modern inline rifles are a very big part of organized competitions now. The NMLRA has numerous aggs for modern inlines, shooting BP or any of the substitutes.
BH209 is limited to 120grs VOLUME, or 84grs WEIGHT.
Modern inlines shooting BH are now shooting and competing with the BPCR guys to 1,000yds.

 

[bronko220002]

I hunt with a clean barrel. At the range when sighting-in I'll run a dry patch down the barrel twice between shots. For storage it's a few patches soaked with Hopppes 9 wrapped around a brass brush, then dry patches until clean. That's my SOP I've settled-on with BH209.

I too hunt on a clean barrel and do the same thing you do with the patches.

 

[bronko220002]

Ask the guys that compete rather they swab between rounds............

I did a search and it seems that there are shooters at both ends. Some swab and some don't using BH209

 

[DavidAR10T]

I may just be a hick, born of northern parents, in Encino, Kommifornia, and raised in NW metro-Atlanta since 1961...
BUTT!!! yoozgyz make me love this bar.
God Bless and keep making me smarter.

 

[ElDiablo]

Bronko, you didn’t specify your swabbing method. Curious what you used. Spit patch? 50/50 Hoppes/alcohol?

Also, I can’t recall (I’d have to look back at my notes) ever getting great accuracy with BH209 with that light of a charge. I generally run 110-120 grV.

I’ve never tried BlackMZ, but the beauty of BH209 is you could shoot 15-20 or more shots in a row without swabbing and you’d still be shooting that same group. No way to do that with the other subs. And the only limitation there is your breech plug carbon build-up. If you keep your plug drilled out every 5-10 shots, you could probably shoot 100 shots into that same group.