Drop Tube

[ENCORE50A]

I'm going to start using a drop tube exclusively for shooting. Hunting will be different, but for shooting I'm going to use a drop tube.

I was just going to buy one, but at $70 for the tube and shipping, I'll make something. Today I did. After searching all over the place for some type of tube, a guy at HD suggested I try using a brake line. ???? Well I headed across the lot to the auto store, told the guy what I was wanting to do. He walked in back and came out with a 30" piece of brake line. $10.
I cut the flare off one end and removed the fittings. A small brass funnel I've had for years, fit right on the other flare. For now its taped on tight. Monday I'll run it down to Kubbie's shop and have him braze the funnel to the line. He might charge me $5, maybe do it for free. Either way it'll end up being a lot less than $70.

Beside the guys that compete, anyone else using a drop tube?

 

[bronko220002]

I made a 24" drop tube for loading black powder 45-70 cartridges.
I used a 3/8" piece of copper tubing and used a reloaders funnel on the top. I screwed a length of 1x4 to a piece of 1x6. Put 2 eye screws in the edge of the 1x4 and a small hose clamp between them so I could adjust the height.
But my question to you is why would you want one for shooting your rifle.
The purpose of it for bp cartridges is to allow the powder to "settle in" tighter in the case.
It really isn't needed when loading a rifle barrel. The barrel length serves the same purpose as a drop tube as long as you dump the powder in slowly.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I made a 24" drop tube for loading black powder 45-70 cartridges.
I used a 3/8" piece of copper tubing and used a reloaders funnel on the top. I screwed a length of 1x4 to a piece of 1x6. Put 2 eye screws in the edge of the 1x4 and a small hose clamp between them so I could adjust the height.
Bu my question to you is why would you want one for shooting your rifle.
The purpose of it for bp cartridges is to allow the powder to "settle in" tighter in the case.
It really isn't needed when loading a rifle barrel. The barrel length serves the same purpose as a drop tube as long as youbdump the powder in slowly.

LOL............ You have to remember I shoot a little competition, and I want every single piece of propellant at the breech plug. When you're sending 350gr bullets 1,000yds, you need everything to be exact.
If I were just shooting short ranges, then I wouldn't bother, but when you get to 300yds and especially 500 and beyond, everything has to be exact.
If you could, you really need to attend a match, or better yet, either the summer or fall Nationals in Friendship. The guys I'm shooting with are all National Champions and record holders. 45-70, Bestill, Barry, Xring, etc. These guys are the top modern inline, or BPCR Masters with National Championships. Guess what? Every one of them use a drop tube.

 

[bronko220002]

So how far down the barrel does the drop tube go? All the way to the breech? If so what happes to the powder that remains in the tube once the breech is full? I would suspect that it is stacked in the drop tube and when the tube is removed it doesn't pack like it would if it was dropped freely.
I really cannot see the advantage of a drop tube for a rifle especially if you trickle the powder down the bore instead of dumping it in.
Explain why its needed and prove me wrong not just because everyone is using one. I'd really like to know.

 

[ElDiablo]

Yeah, doesn’t make much sense to me either.

 

[HC]

I’ve been using a drop tube made from an aluminum arrow shaft for years. It does make a difference especially on the smaller calibers.

 

[45-70]

most are adjusted so that doesn't happen , the powder doesn't hang in the tube. There is no ballistic proof or other wise, just something we all do. I also shoot black powder cartridge and familiar with it. So why would you want powder stuck to side of the barrel

 

[ENCORE50A]

So how far down the barrel does the drop tube go? All the way to the breech? If so what happes to the powder that remains in the tube once the breech is full? I would suspect that it is stacked in the drop tube and when the tube is removed it doesn't pack like it would if it was dropped freely.
I really cannot see the advantage of a drop tube for a rifle especially if you trickle the powder down the bore instead of dumping it in.
Explain why its needed and prove me wrong not just because everyone is using one. I'd really like to know.

THAT is why you need to come to Friendship.

Packing the propellant itself by a drop tube or just a slow pour, does nothing positive or negative. If there is "packing", then it is compressed with the wad and bullet, using "x" amount of seating force. BH doesn't need to be compressed tightly to ignite.

Something you may not know is that for extreme accuracy, shooters swab between each round. You might end up with propellant from the barrel to the breech, in some way or another, propellant stuck in parts of the grooves. Then think about how much propellant may not reach the ignition at the breech plug, if one did not swab between rounds. The grooves are filthy with burned propellant that is almost sticky.

A drop tube puts ALL THE PROPELLANT directly on the ignition source. ES can go down. Most importantly, the velocity will hopefully remain constant. A difference of 10fps won't make a significant difference in 100yd, not much at 200. However, its a HUGE PROBLEM when shooting these rifles beyond 500yds and to 1,000yds. Another thing to consider.

 

[ElDiablo]

Doesn’t the wad/bullet push all the powder down? And if you’re swabbing between shots, there’s no fouling to mix with the powder.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Doesn’t the wad/bullet push all the powder down? And if you’re swabbing between shots, there’s no fouling to mix with the powder. will push the powder down, but it won't get all.

Remember too, events are timed.

The wad will get the highest percent to the point of ignition, but not all, whereas a smooth sized bullet touches only the lands and the grooves could be full. There's always fouling in the bore. One damp patch down and out, one or two dry patches still leaves fouling and a possibility of propellant not making it to the ignition point.

 

[bronko220002]

Doesn’t the wad/bullet push all the powder down? And if you’re swabbing between shots, there’s no fouling to mix with the powder.

I believe I see what Encore is getting at. Tell me if I'm wrong.
I know about consistency by swabbing between shots. I always do.
But what I believe the reason for the tube is to get the powder down to the breech area without it getting hung up on the bore wall and being pushed down by the bullet along with some residual fouling. Using the tube ensures that the entire charge of fresh powder is placed directly in the breech and up without any contaminents.
Does that about sum it up?
Something about swabbing between shots, which I do, that could cause issues is foluing being pushed down into the breech from a patch. Why wouldn't that be a concern?

 

[ElDiablo]

I don’t see it. The wad should push it all down. Makes no sense. But hey, if it makes you more confident….

If events are timed, why mess with a drop tube?

“There is no ballistic proof or other wise, just something we all do.”

^ This tells me all I need to know.

 

[bronko220002]

Encore do you really think you can keep your ES within 10 fps over the course of a shoot? I really find that highly unlikely.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I believe I see what Encore is getting at. Tell me if I'm wrong.
I know about consistency by swabbing between shots. I always do.
But what I believe the reason for the tube is to get the powder down to the breech area without it getting hung up on the bore wall and being pushed down by the bullet along with some residual fouling. Using the tube ensures that the entire charge of fresh powder is placed directly in the breech and up without any contaminents.
Does that about sum it up?
Something about swabbing between shots, which I do, that could cause issues is foluing being pushed down into the breech from a patch. Why wouldn't that be a concern?

Yup. Getting every bit of propellant at the ignition source is the reason for the drop tube.
Yup, keeping fouling away from the breech plug.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Check the difference of 10fps................

Using the 400gr Fury and NP bullets Mtmonkey sent me with the actual velocity of both...........

2,100fps.




2090fps...............



I see where someone mentioned that each grain of BH amounted to 15fps. So if 2grs got hung up and wasn't part of the ignition............



Between actual velocity and the loss of 2grs, is 2moa. That's 20" at 1,000yds. You could miss the entire target and backstop.
Every contributing factor must be addressed.

 

[MrTom]

A metal tube can be charged with static from the air while handling. How can you be positive that every grain of powder is reaching the bottom and to the point intended and some not hung up by static? Steel brake line is fairly narrow, at least that which I've worked with is, so how do you pass a partial sheet of fabric softener sheet thru it to get rid of the static should there be any? Being metal, maybe the tube discharges any static thru the gun? I think the tube concept is great, but I've seen firsthand how much powder can hang up in a charge tube due to static and would think that in itself should give concern.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I don’t see it. The wad should push it all down. Makes no sense. But hey, if it makes you more confident….

If events are timed, why mess with a drop tube?

“There is no ballistic proof or other wise, just something we all do.”

^ This tells me all I need to know.

I would suggest that 45-70 has been using a drop tube for so many decades, that he may not remember any differences.

However........ If you go by the charts, it makes one heck of a difference. 20" is a miss and you'd be lucky to keep it on the backstop.

A metal tube can be charged with static from the air while handling. How can you be positive that every grain of powder is reaching the bottom and to the point intended and some not hung up by static? Steel brake line is fairly narrow, at least that which I've worked with is, so how do you pass a partial sheet of fabric softener sheet thru it to get rid of the static should there be any? Being metal, maybe the tube discharges any static thru the gun? I think the tube concept is great, but I've seen firsthand how much powder can hang up in a charge tube due to static and would think that in itself should give concern.

Spray anti-static and problem resolved.
I poured I don't know how many charges through the one I made yesterday and nothing hung up from static. Actually I weighed the charge prior to and a few times after. I'm not loosing propellant and the weight remains the same.

Even the professional brass drop tubes conduct static electricity.

 

[birdog]

Are you using anti static spray used on clothing?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Are you using anti static spray used on clothing?

https://www.grainger.com/product/ACL-STATICIDE-Anti-Static-Control-Spray-54JE13

 

[bronko220002]

Encore you highlighted the wrong area on the last chart. At 2100fps vel is 1071.5, at 2090 its 1068.3, and the last chart using your 30 fps loss for the 2 gr is 1061.9.
But more importantly if you look at the drop between 2100 and 2090 fps the difference is only 0.4" at 700 yards. Even with the 2 grain loss bringing your 2100 down to 2070 the difference is 1.3" at 700 yards. That's less than 0.2 MOA.
At 1000 yards the difference in drop is 0.7" and 2.0" which still puts you at a 0.2 MOA or smaller difference.
The figures don't lie and the charts prove the point. Now unless your rifle can shoot one hole groups at 700 yards a drop tube ain't going to help you a whole lot.
Honestly, I believe someone with a lot of influence started using a drop tube and shot really good with it that particular day and convinced you all that's the way to go. But hey, if it gives you confidence, by all mean go for it.
Like you said though Elevation is just math - windage is an artform. I'd be more concerned about windage if these charts are accurate.