Looking for First Muzzleloader

[hallagincustom]

I’m torn between the Knight and the TC Encore Pro Hunter. What’s nice is I can change out the barrels for the .460, .35 Whelen, or .45/70.


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[WPrather]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

I haven’t had any dealings with Knight since they went out of business and come back as the new Knight Company. So I can’t say from experience but if you do a search on Knights warrentee and service you will find plenty of complaints and some good. It must depend on who you talk to, what day of the week it is or who you are.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

I’m torn between the Knight and the TC Encore Pro Hunter. What’s nice is I can change out the barrels for the .460, .35 Whelen, or .45/70.


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If you go with a Knight, contact Bestill here on the site. Have him modify it and you'll have zero issues in the future.
I sure liked the Encore platform rifles for break opens. Easily worked on and/or modifying of the frame. Kicking myself in the ask for selling my last 209x50 Pro Hunter.

 

[Okie Hog]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Buy a nice Knight rifle and don't look back.

In about 2005 i bought an Encore muzzleloader. Bought five TC center fire rifle barrels for that gun. Three of those very expensive barrels were trash - headspace problems. Sent them back to TC and got my money back. Could not remove the breech plug without taking the barrel off the receiver and turning the extractor sideways: Had to install the extra cost extractor. There were misfires with the rifle barrels, that required a stronger hammer spring. The ramrod thimbles were loose. Replaced the hinge pin with an oversize model. The weak lockup springs were replaced with stronger ones. Then the receiver was welded and completely re-machined to take out the side play.

Yep, my Encore gun caused me more trouble than all the other guns i've owned combined; but now i have a good gun.

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Buy a nice Knight rifle and don't look back.

In about 2005 i bought an Encore muzzleloader. Bought five TC center fire rifle barrels for that gun. Three of those very expensive barrels were trash - headspace problems. Sent them back to TC and got my money back. Could not remove the breech plug without taking the barrel off the receiver and turning the extractor sideways: Had to install the extra cost extractor. There were misfires with the rifle barrels, that required a stronger hammer spring. The ramrod thimbles were loose. Replaced the hinge pin with an oversize model. The weak lockup springs were replaced with stronger ones. Then the receiver was welded and completely re-machined to take out the side play.

Yep, my Encore gun caused me more trouble than all the other guns i've owned combined; but now i have a good gun.

A very Large Gunshop that I frequented regularly on the Wa Coast absolutely refused to carry the old TC Contenders back when they first hit the scene, Their claim of Swapping barrels ‘easily’ to another caliber was a JOKE at best, Ron Kesselring (Small bore Benchrest champion several times, and owner of Kesselring Gun Shop in Burlington Wa) Told me that they should be installed/fitted by a Competent Gunsmith, or someone that really knew what they were doing. Ron Said that he had seen more of them come back, often times more than once to be fitted properly after they had settled in. After the initial Rodeo (a couple years of carrying them, More so working on them!) He absolutely refused to carry 1 in his building!!

Now I ABSOLUTELY understand that the original Contender and the Encore are a different animal. I bought an Encore Pro Stainless Fluted 7Rem Mag, And a .500 S&W Magnum pistol barrel, Grip, etc. So i could swap back n forth. I have owned more 7 Mags over the years than i can begin to remember Buy, Sell, Trade, its been a BUNCH of them! The 7 Rem Mag has been 1 of the most accurate Cartridges i have ever worked with in my life, EVERY single 7 Mag i owned would shoot Sub MOA with little, to no work. EXCEPT that TC Encore 7 Mag, I was darn lucky to hit a pie plate with that rifle at 100 yards, I have Reloaded my own custom ammo for 31 years now, I simply could NOT get that Encore to shoot? The S&W 500 pistol barrel had a built in muzzle brake, Which didn’t seem to do much LOL! That thing kicked like a Mule, but was fun to shoot! After the 7Mag encore i swore that i would never own another break barrel Centerfire, To this Day i can stil hear Ole Man Ron Kesselring telling me AVOID it like the Plague! LOL, All i can say is i would never own another one, unless i won it in a raffle, then I would be rid of it ASAP and buy ANYTHING else.

 

[52Bore]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

One on this sight in classified , Knight Mountaineer, .45 1-20 twist already just add scope

+1
$1100 with a great Vortex scope.
That's the only rifle I've seen/shot in competition that can compete with any custom - at least out to 500yds.
It also allows a shooter to shoot reduced loads/bullets in sabots out to 150-200 with success..

 

[SuperKirby]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

I pulled the ad on my .45 1-20 today. I suppose if the OP sent me a PM soon I’d consider selling it still. Otherwise I’m keeping it. Its a pretty awesome gun.

 

[FredB]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

I love the look of the ergonomics of the TC Encore, but I passed on it because it didn't meet qualifications for ML hunts in my preferred state of Idaho. So I got a TC Northwest Explorer, which was supposed to be made for Idaho, and other such restrictive states. And it has a QLA on the end of the barrel. :huh?: After many frustrating trips to the range, and not being able to get reasonable accuracy out of it, and more reading on this sight, I'm going to take it in to get a QLA-circumcision. If you are sticking to sabots, instead of conicals, you may not have that problem, but be warned.
And if you are new to muzzleloading, I should mention that different states can have different laws about what is allowed. (Ignition systems, and projectiles.) Especially if you may want to hunt out west, you may want to do your homework first. Fortunately, some companies offer conversion kits, and different parts and pieces. I didn't see an off-the-shelf conversion for the TC Encore.

If I had read more posts, I would have avoided the QLA, and stuck with Knight.

 

[WPrather]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

I’m torn between the Knight and the TC Encore Pro Hunter. What’s nice is I can change out the barrels for the .460, .35 Whelen, or .45/70.


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If you go to Buds Guns .com you can get the the Weathershield Tc Prohunter frame assembly for $353 after the $75 dollar mail in rebate it’s $278 bucks. Hausofarms is the cheapest place I have found to get barrels $280 for 28in Prohunter barrels and $350 for a weather shield 28in 50cal XT muzzeloader barrel.

Rifle assembly $278
28in Prohunter barrel $280
28in Prohunter XT 50cal barrel $350
Prohunter muzzeloader forend $45

For $955 bucks you could have a TC Prohunter XT 50cal muzzeloader and a rifle barrel of your choice. That’s 2 Guns for under your gun budget and about the same price as 1 Knight muzzeloader.

You throw in a $100 bucks for a complete action and trigger job. All the springs changed and grinding and polishing the sear. You can have your trigger set 1.5,2.5 or 3.5lbs what ever you want.Then $10 bucks for a 1x hinge pin and 2 $8 dollar lock up springs for the 2 barrels. You will have 2 Guns that will shoot better than you can shoot them and still be $100 bucks under your gun budget.

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

You will have 2 Guns that will shoot better than you can shoot them

Bold statement there! I’m curious how you know this?

 

[Squeeze]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Everyone likes what they have, especially If they only have 1-2. Its almost a forced reaction thing. :wink: A lot of this depends on your typical hunting range. Short range brush gun guys are easy to satisfy. The open plain cornfield guys, have to maintain a bit more integrity. Those cheap hinge guns outsell anything else Ill bet 10 to 1, and for the most part, the owners are happy.

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Those cheap hinge guns outsell anything else Ill bet 10 to 1, and for the most part, the owners are happy.

My thoughts as well

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

You will have 2 Guns that will shoot better than you can shoot them

Bold statement there! I’m curious how you know this?

Not speaking for WPrather, but I can tell you from lots of past experience with Encore platform rifles, for little cost and about an hour or so time, you can change one of the rifles into what will feel like a completely different rifle. If you have the mechanical ability, all the work can be completed easily and directions are available online.
Every Encore platform rifle I've owned and made modifications to, all shot better than before the modifications and as accurate as I could possibly shoot them. I've owned and modified quite a few, plus a number of rifles for others.
Now, should that work be necessary, probably not. But at least the rifles can be modified to each individual's choice and made better than it came from the box. Can't do that with any other break open to my knowledge.

 

[Okie Hog]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

The Encore rifles biggest problem is the fact that the thing is built on a short reinforced pistol frame. i have a very nice Winchester model 37 shotgun my Dad bought in 1950. That 50+ year old gun locks up tighter than my new Encore did.

After spending a lot of money and going through an awful lot of trouble my .50 caliber Encore is still not as accurate as my TC Fire Hawk or Black Diamond. i sometimes use the Encore when shooting from a tree stand or blind.

Was it worth the trouble? Absolutely not!!!!

 

[Idaholewis]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

You will have 2 Guns that will shoot better than you can shoot them

Bold statement there! I’m curious how you know this?

Not speaking for WPrather, but I can tell you from lots of past experience with Encore platform rifles, for little cost and about an hour or so time, you can change one of the rifles into what will feel like a completely different rifle. If you have the mechanical ability, all the work can be completed easily and directions are available online.
Every Encore platform rifle I've owned and made modifications to, all shot better than before the modifications and as accurate as I could possibly shoot them. I've owned and modified quite a few, plus a number of rifles for others.
Now, should that work be necessary, probably not. But at least the rifles can be modified to each individual's choice and made better than it came from the box. Can't do that with any other break open to my knowledge.

From what I remember the Brand New Stainless Encore i bought wasn’t that cheap? Seems like the barrels were 300 bucks a piece? I guess cheap is different to each of us. Like i said in a previous post, I had a 7MM Remington Magnum, it was a Fluted Stainless barrel, And a S&W 500 Magnum Pistol barrel. The 7MM Remington Magnum shot patterns (not groups) similar to a Shotgun, If you consider a pie plate at 100 yards good, Then my Encore was good, But To me that is unacceptable garbage! The S&W 500 Pistol was the best part, EXCEPT it was a slick barrel intended for a Scope, GOOD LUCK with that in a pistol configuration LOL! With the Recoil that thing produced even with a built in ported/Muzzle brake it was stil FAR beyond what most humans could tolerate and be accurate with, it was a fun novelty thing, but actually hurt to shoot it! I have owned, and shot true Elephant Rifles that were easier to shoot. The Encore wasn’t for me, i tried it, I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t buy another, nor would i advise it.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Most bought the Encore platform for its ability to change barrels. Those who wanted to change multiple barrels ended up with some issues. Lockup changed with each different barrel, thus affecting accuracy. Most didn't learn about a tight hinge until long after the rifle had been out and a loose lockup will create accuracy issues.
If most would have purchased the rifle just as a muzzleloader, like they would any other muzzleloader, they most likely wouldn't have had any issues at all.

Anyone with an Encore platform rifle that they hate, sent it my way

 

[sabinajiles]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Sounds to me like the OP needs to decide what is most important to him. If changing barrels and calibers is a priority, the TC Encore is the way to go, although, IMO, and as others have pointed out, the QLA is a major detriment. Yeah, I know it doesn't affect sabot/bullets but paying a premium price for a rifle that won't shoot full bore conicals, if you wished to do so, is not a positive selling point. A plus, though, is that you could get a smokeless nuzzleloader barrel if you wished.

If the OP's main priority is an accurate, reliable muzzleloader, the CVA Accura he originally mentioned will certainly fill the bill, although I, personally, would also go with the Accura MR model. Regardless of what TC fans think, the CVA Accura rifles are as accurate, easy to maintain and as reliable as any muzzleloader TC makes and offer better value. The nitride finished stainless barrels are better than plain stainless and way better than ceracoted barrels, The Accura trigger is arguably one of the best factory triggers offered. As someone already pointed out, the CVA Bergara barrels are very versatile for load development. You can get almost any good bullet to shoot accurately out of them.

If he wants a bolt action, I agree the Knight Ultralight and Remington Ultimate would be be options and fit his budget. My personal choice would be the Knight. Another option that hasn't been mentioned is Jeff Fisk makes a custom rifle using the TC Omega action and Brux barrel that I believe would fit his budget. depending on options. Besides allowing him to use heavy BH209 loads, it would also give the option of using smokeless loads, if desired, and extending his range. He would have to talk to Jeff, set up a build and allow some lead time. I'm having Jeff do one of these for me this year and have no doubts it will be a real shooter, maybe the best in my arsenal.

 

[Smyrnagc]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Well said...Good summary for the OP.

 

[GM54-120]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Im not a fan of alloy frame break actions but the Optima v2 in nitride is a ton of gun for the money and almost as light as a Accura MR. You trade off a couple ounces for another inch of barrel. You save some $$$$s and have the option of a thumbhole stock to boot. Ive seen some killer pricing on the Accura MR occasionally though. End of the year sales in the "Bargain Bins" can save a ton of money. MidwayUSA had some on sale for around $350 not long ago.

QLA really dont mean squat to me. I can load sabots just fine in my true .500 land to land bore without a QLA. Its probably helpful in the typically tight T/C bores. If i can load a MMP short with a .451 bullet in a .500 land barrel i cant imagine ever needing a QLA. Thats one heck of a large OD sabot to load in a .500x.510 bore.

Ive been down the "swap barrel road" before with a early Contender rifle. It lost its appeal rather quickly although i loved my 223 barrel. It was a wonderful shooter. The cost of scope/mounts adds up pretty quick though. Before you know it you realize you could have bought a complete bolt action rifle for the cost of a couple barrels with scopes.

 

[Xlr8n]

Re: Looking for First Muzzleloader

Im not a fan of alloy frame break actions but the Optima v2 in nitride is a ton of gun for the money and almost as light as a Accura MR. You trade off a couple ounces for another inch of barrel. You save some $$$$s and have the option of a thumbhole stock to boot. Ive seen some killer pricing on the Accura MR occasionally though. End of the year sales in the "Bargain Bins" can save a ton of money. MidwayUSA had some on sale for around $350 not long ago.

QLA really dont mean squat to me. I can load sabots just fine in my true .500 land to land bore without a QLA. Its probably helpful in the typically tight T/C bores. If i can load a MMP short with a .451 bullet in a .500 land barrel i cant imagine ever needing a QLA. Thats one heck of a large OD sabot to load in a .500x.510 bore.

Ive been down the "swap barrel road" before with a early Contender rifle. It lost its appeal rather quickly although i loved my 223 barrel. It was a wonderful shooter. The cost of scope/mounts adds up pretty quick though. Before you know it you realize you could have bought a complete bolt action rifle for the cost of a couple barrels with scopes.

Yeah, I was going to get the Accura, but I found an online sale on the Optima Stealth all-black package including Nitride barrel, 3-9x40 scope, Quake Contour sling, and case for $299 with free shipping. Couldnt pass it up.