LRX Accuracy improvement

[jml1990]

Hi all, I'm relatively new to muzzleloaders and hoping to find an answer to my accuracy problem here. I'm shooting my .50 cal CVA LRX at 200 yards and have a bit of separation vertically in the grouping - my spread is about 3" left to right but about 7-8" vertically. Shooting from a lead sled because I am just trying to optimize my load.

Load workup: 76 gr by weight BH 209, Federal 209A primers, 300 gr saboted bullets.

I had the same issue with 78 gr BH at 100 yds. Using 75-78gr BH I am shooting 1-1.25" groups at 100yds, hotter loads the pattern starts to open up so I have not tried them at 200 yds. I'm going to try 72 and 74 gr next but not sure if dropping the velocity will help stabilize the bullets at that range. Wish the LRX had a faster twist, have not been impressed with it for the price point.

 

[Hurricane]

Somebody who knows more than me about this kind of stuff will probably ask you what brand of bullets and sabots?

 

[Mnt monkey]

Drop down to a 250 or 275 I realize that 300 grain carries more energy at that distance and would be more ideal especially hunting but I think the 28 twist struggles a little bit with the 300 grain bullet I know some people can shoot them ,but since you're not having the success you're looking for try Fury 250 black tips and his 265 STb start at 70 grains by weight exactly if you're not shooting less than an inch at 100 ,,and by the way the 70 grains and the 250 Fury and most of the 28 twist CVa I have shoots less than an inch around a half inch to 3/4 ,,,but if you're not at least shooting that tight at 100 there's no way you're going to get the accuracy you're looking for at 200. I've shot the Acuras that I've had and for other friends at 200 yards quite a bit I've been able to keep that 70 grains by weight and the 250 grain Fury Less Than 3 in at 200 yards and multiple rifles most of the guns would hover around an inch and a half at 200 with that load I couldn't go much further than that and I didn't because I know I was going to run out of energy to hunt with it anyway.

 

[jml1990]

Thanks for the tips, I'll look into those Fury black tips. I've gotten worried the 1:28 barrel wasn't going to like these 300 grs bullets and it sounds like that is the case, I was trying to stay around the 300 gr for an upcoming elk trip but maybe thats not possible... Just a bit frustrating when you have a gun with Long Range in the name.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Well if I was going to Elk hunt I wouldn't give up on that 300 grain bullet , I would imagine a 275 put in the right place would be okay ,I would really make sure my mechanics follow through on the shot was as consistent as possible those rifles jump up and come back I use only the Harvester sabots,, I have all the other ones on the Shelf and I usually will try them for me about nine times out of 10 whether it's 45 or 50 the Harvester sabot's shoot best,,, El Diablo here on the site hunts elk too and I know he has a lot of experience with the 28 twist he probably could give you some advice, he would be a great resource.

 

[jml1990]

Hoping @ElDiablo has some tips. @Mnt monkey given your suggestion on the 70 grs for the Fury I'm going to try that load next. I'm shooting Parker bullets with Harvester sabots as well.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I would suggest taking a look at Fury's 501-502-503 full bore bullets he also has one that has a universal aspect to it look on there site,, the smaller one I think it's a 325 I had good accuracy with shooting full bore with Blackhorn.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I never got a 300 grain with sabot in a 28 to shoot the way I wanted it too,, however I did get that 325 in several rifle shooting full bore under an inch, well under an inch. I think it would be a good elk bullet

 

[jml1990]

I just gave them a call over at Fury and he recommended the 320 gr universal at 80 gr by weight. We'll see how they shoot.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Yes sorry about the weight mistake, it's a 320 I don't know why I had in my mind it was a 325, that bullet shot good for me ,,Dennis is pointing you in the right direction and if 80 grains isn't perfect don't hesitate to drop down a little bit but I like his advice

 

[Mnt monkey]

Hope to hear your results

 

[ElDiablo]

Personally, I prefer 300+ gr bullets for elk. I’ve been happy with the 300 gr bonded TC Shockwave bullets in 1:28 twist rifles. Lead 300s have always worked for me in 28 twist. Copper, they are longer so tougher to get to shoot in a 28 twist.

 

[ENCORE50A]

75grs Weight of BH and a 290gr Barnes T-EZ or if too loose, the TMZ. I'd also try the Expanders..............
They will shoot.

Check the lockup of the rifle and make sure there's no wobble.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Get rid of the lead sled. Trust me. It can cause more problems than it solves.
Go to a rear bag and bipod or front rest.

 

[jml1990]

@ENCORE50A The Barnes T-EZ was another option I was shooting but kinda had the same issue, I was beginning to wonder if it just didn't like the 300 gr sabots at that distance. What kind of issues have you seen from the lead sled? I figured I'd use it to get a load developed just to save my shoulder - I can take some recoil but a day at the range with these loads might leave me a bit sore which tends to lead to some flinching.

 

[ENCORE50A]

@ENCORE50A The Barnes T-EZ was another option I was shooting but kinda had the same issue, I was beginning to wonder if it just didn't like the 300 gr sabots at that distance. What kind of issues have you seen from the lead sled? I figured I'd use it to get a load developed just to save my shoulder - I can take some recoil but a day at the range with these loads might leave me a bit sore which tends to lead to some flinching.

Lead sleds are HARD on scopes. More scopes have been busted using lead sleds than you can imagine. Stocks have been broken also. You'll be much better off using a front rest/bipod and a rear bag. Shooting from a sled, then from the shoulder can also change the POI.

Now don't take this the wrong way but, rifles GROUP, shotguns pattern. This may mean that you're still early in using muzzleloaders?
There's a post about recoil I suggest you read. A PAST recoil pad WILL really help with recoil. Felt recoil reduction

Trying to completely understand your OP, your horizontal group is 3" at 200yds? That's fine for what you're currently attempting. Now the 7" or 8" vertical, that's something that you're doing wrong. DON'T hold the forearm. DON'T grip the rifle hard with your trigger hand. Use a rock solid bench. Position the rifle butt exactly the same way on your shoulder.
Accuracy has one main ingredient, consistency.

Break open rifles ........ can .......... have issues with locking up. Check to make sure that there's absolutely ZERO movement between the barrel and action. Its been known for decades that if the rifle doesn't lock up tight, vertical POI will wonder. If there's a .002" of vertical movement between your barrel and frame, it can affect your POI by anywhere from 6" to 8" at 200yds. However, I'm more inclined to believe its how you're shooting off that sled. Best thing you can do with that is............... sell it.

Good luck and keep us all informed. Target photos help................

 

[jml1990]

I'll take a look at the post on recoil here today. I'm new to muzzleloaders but not rifles, the lead sled I bought for long days at the range with my 300 wsm and never had an issue there but I suppose this is a different beast. I dont strap the barrel in rather just use the weight to absorb some recoil but I'll put it away for the muzzleloader.

My 100 yard groups all look good and it was when I moved out to 200 that things opened up. The range I have been shooting at, the 200 yd gets a little awkward to position for so maybe thats a factor. With the forearm are you suggesting not hold it in any way, or dont hold the barrel at the forearm? I'll check the barrel and action as well here.

I'm planning an afternoon at the range
- dropping the lead sled and throwing on a bipod I can pull off a rifle
- some loads in the 70-75 grain range
- checking the barrel and action
- reading the recoil post
And I'll get some pictures up this afternoon. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I'm assuming that you checked all the hardware, and all screws for the mount and rings are tight? What scope are you using?

Main thing is to take your time and be as consistent as possible.

Sleds....... I've seen many a scope turn into junk by shooting them off a sled. One shooter who came to shoot here had a new rifle, scope and wanted help sighting it in. He was shooting 75grs W of BH out of a Traditions. He had to shoot from a sled. I think his scope might have lasted 5, maybe 6 rounds and the erector system was junk.
Just take your time. Repeat exactly your process from one round to another. Be SURE to allow the barrel to cool between rounds.
Some rifles can be a little finicky and they may take longer to find the "sweet spot". However, I believe with production rifles, we've all understood that ... most, not all ... rifles will shoot a decent bullet with 75grs W of BH accurately.

 

[jml1990]

I put off the range for tomorrow, the Fury bullets are arriving tomorrow and I'll add them to the list.

I'm using the Konus scope with Ace In the Hole base from Williams Gunsight and Weaver rings. I have a scope mounting kit I used to confirm the rings are straight and torqued with a torque wrench. I'm not too worried about my trigger squeeze or breathing, i've never had trouble with any of my rifles with those and have shot iron sights out to 300 yards when I was in the Army. I take about 4-5 minutes between shots, using my phone as a timer, to let the barrel cool so it doesn't start walking and run a patch between each shot. I also weigh out my powder on a digital scale accurate to +/- 0.1 grain.

I checked my gun last night, didn't seem to be any movement between the barrel and frame. The Forearm was very loose, the forearm screws were loose as well. I have never touched these so they must not have been tightened from the factory. Not sure if this has any impact though. Will update tomorrow or Friday after some range time. Thanks everyone for taking time and trying to help me out here.

 

[jml1990]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I made it back to the range and I’m happy with the results. I think there is still room for improvement but I’m down the right road i think! The first picture is last weekend, 2nd is after the recommendations, both at 200 yards. I can live with 6 shots in 2 3/4”