Scales that work to measure ramrid preasure

[Ga.Smokey]

What scales do people use? Analog digital what works and is accurate

 

[deermanok]

I'm not certain that such a thing exists?
For me, it's more of a "feel " as I seat my ball or bullets on the powder.
One should strive to develop a loading routine that works for them and load the same way every shot.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

I'm not certain that such a thing exists?
For me, it's more of a "feel " as I seat my ball or bullets on the powder.
One should strive to develop a loading routine that works for them and load the same way every shot.

I've heard it mentioned " bathroom scale "

 

[ENCORE50A]

I'm not certain that such a thing exists?
For me, it's more of a "feel " as I seat my ball or bullets on the powder.
One should strive to develop a loading routine that works for them and load the same way every shot.

Yes sir, they've existed for decades. As a retired Ergonomist, I've measured 10's of thousands of forces.

https://www.wagnerinstruments.com/products/Force-Gages/All-Force-Gages

 

[deermanok]

Not trying to start any arguments this morning but I can't understand what value knowing the answer would be out in the deer woods if you had to reload for a second or third shot.
I mean, I'm not going to bring any scales or such in my kit.

 

[MrTom]

Not trying to start any arguments this morning but I can't understand what value knowing the answer would be out in the deer woods if you had to reload for a second or third shot.
I mean, I'm not going to bring any scales or such in my kit.

I'm sort of in Jim's camp here. I understand the need for near absolute consistency when you're sending high tech bullets downrange 1000 yards, but in the deer woods such equipment would be a royal pain.

In reading your postings Ga.smokey I assume you're after the best of the best off the bench and the loading pressure might favor you. For me at the deer stand I generally load the gun at home before heading out and pay as much attention to detail as possible to keep what's down the pipe uniform, but loading pressure hasn't been too high up the list of have-to's. I do double check the tamp on the charge when I get settled in the stand though.

 

[anonymouscowherd]

Not trying to start any arguments this morning but I can't understand what value knowing the answer would be out in the deer woods if you had to reload for a second or third shot.
I mean, I'm not going to bring any scales or such in my kit.

I could see it being kinda usefu/helpful for determining bullet fit, but slugging the bore is probably easier and cheaper.

Could also see a use for determining the effect of various powders or lubes as it relates to loading pressure. Middle school science fair anyone?

 

[deermanok]

I hear what you guys are saying. I'm a believer that in muzzleloading, keeping your routine the same, same, for every shot is key for good accuracy. Whatever tools or techniques you want to use to get there, is a good thing.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Not trying to start any arguments this morning but I can't understand what value knowing the answer would be out in the deer woods if you had to reload for a second or third shot.
I mean, I'm not going to bring any scales or such in my kit.

You are correct........ for the hunter it is completely unnecessary.

What I can tell you for certain is, one can not determine that he/she is using the same force each time, rather it be loading force or seating force. You can't get close. Just like shooters that want to hold on to their forearm shooting from a bench. You'll never get the same holding force. You think you can, but I can assure you, you won't.

I could see it being kinda usefu/helpful for determining bullet fit, but slugging the bore is probably easier and cheaper.

Could also see a use for determining the effect of various powders or lubes as it relates to loading pressure. Middle school science fair anyone?

Actually its extremely easy and more accurate using a gage. Also depending on the rifle's bore, its easier to identify inconsistencies.
Every different bullet I shoot is sized to a verified loading force.

 

[Decay]

What I can tell you for certain is, one can not determine that he/she is using the same force each time, rather it be loading force or seating force. You can't get close. Just like shooters that want to hold on to their forearm shooting from a bench. You'll never get the same holding force. You think you can, but I can assure you, you won't.

The use of this gauge intrigues me. I know you've mentioned it several times in other threads. What do you do to assure yourself that your loading force and seating force is as consistent as possible when you're shooting long range? Do you use your force gauge every time you load? What variability do you see in pounds of force? Or, how relevant is it? Without the gauge, how do you maintain consistency of loading force? Do you develop a "feel" for consistency through repetition? You use the gauge to assist in determining the bullet diameter for loading force, that I clearly understand. How about seating force? that seems like it's very difficult to be consistent on, but perhaps more important.

 

[ENCORE50A]

The use of this gauge intrigues me. I know you've mentioned it several times in other threads. What do you do to assure yourself that your loading force and seating force is as consistent as possible when you're shooting long range? Do you use your force gauge every time you load? What variability do you see in pounds of force? Or, how relevant is it? Without the gauge, how do you maintain consistency of loading force? Do you develop a "feel" for consistency through repetition? You use the gauge to assist in determining the bullet diameter for loading force, that I clearly understand. How about seating force? that seems like it's very difficult to be consistent on, but perhaps more important.

To date I have not used the gage for seating the bullets at Atterbury, but that may certainly change this year. The loading forces will remain the same from the sized bullets, which I'll size to load harder from now on, and I also size them to fit after 5 passes through the die. In a clean barrel, I had been sizing to 9# loading force but will increase that to 20#. Loading force must be checked SLOWLY, as any acceleration will give false readings.
So once the bullets are passed through the die 5 times, they remain sized properly. That process just works for me, as I have bullets that were sized over a year ago that continue to load at the same forces. If my goal is 20#, then on the 5th pass I want it to load in a clean barrel at 20#.
I have used verified the seating forces in the past, which averaged right around 100# with a two handed "thump". With the rod attached to the gage, it would be easy to verify say 80# seating force.

I think I answered them all LOL

 

[Decay]

Thank you.

 

[Black Locust]

Not trying to start any arguments this morning but I can't understand what value knowing the answer would be out in the deer woods if you had to reload for a second or third shot.
I mean, I'm not going to bring any scales or such in my kit.

The only drawback is the scales must be painted blaze orange.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

Not trying to start any arguments this morning but I can't understand what value knowing the answer would be out in the deer woods if you had to reload for a second or third shot.
I mean, I'm not going to bring any scales or such in my kit.

For starters the question wasn't hunting related. Deer season is months away yet
I'm not going to Cary a scale either.
I'll use the scale for training purposes.

The question is purely target shooting related. Loading forces have got to play a role in overall accuracy just like neck tension in a cartridge..
I'm looking for a way to eliminate a variable to better evaluate loads
It will train my feel to load consistently when deer season does come around.

 

[Ninering62]

The use of this gauge intrigues me. I know you've mentioned it several times in other threads. What do you do to assure yourself that your loading force and seating force is as consistent as possible when you're shooting long range? Do you use your force gauge every time you load? What variability do you see in pounds of force? Or, how relevant is it? Without the gauge, how do you maintain consistency of loading force? Do you develop a "feel" for consistency through repetition? You use the gauge to assist in determining the bullet diameter for loading force, that I clearly understand. How about seating force? that seems like it's very difficult to be consistent on, but perhaps more important.

Good questions indeed

 

[Ninering62]

I've heard it mentioned " bathroom scale "

Yes, some can & do use a bathroom scale to get downforce in lbs, but I learned that you can only do that with the old style scales bc the digital bathroom scales will only register the most weight applied, but not anything on the way there.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

Yes sir, they've existed for decades. As a retired Ergonomist, I've measured 10's of thousands of forces.

https://www.wagnerinstruments.com/products/Force-Gages/All-Force-Gages

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Thank-you for the reply sir
Your posts are always intriguing and informative.
I saw the link after the PM so question answered
I did find a unit that is a dial gauge.push pull force gauge that I can adapt.
For me having used dial indicators for years
I can better track the bore and set numbers.
I just can't imagine it would hurt anything.
I'm assuming that the final seat preasure is the most relivent at the range.
I'd have worked out the bore preasure before hand.
My interest with sabots comes with load preasure and bullet diameter with a specific sabot.
I'm wondering if load or bore preasure is adjusted up or down effects accuracy and sabot stress. Plastic deposits. Long-term accuracy and the cleaning cycle duration between cleaning.
Obviously when sizing bullets to bore the size development would be more precise if you assigned a value and then sized to that standard.
I'm hoping it becomes a useful tool like a chrono or digital nc powder measure.
Something we didn't know we needed until
We got one.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

Yes, some can & do use a bathroom scale to get downforce in lbs, but I learned that you can only do that with the old style scales bc the digital bathroom scales will only register the most weight applied, but not anything on the way there.

I found a dial force gauge on you guessed it scamazon

 

[ENCORE50A]

Thank you.

Just a little testing of how loading forces affect velocity.

All charges were IDENTICAL with IDENTICAL weight bullets. Check out the velocity averages. There's 106fps difference with the Pittman bullets at 8# vs 18# loading force.

 

[Ga.Smokey]

I'm sort of in Jim's camp here. I understand the need for near absolute consistency when you're sending high tech bullets downrange 1000 yards, but in the deer woods such equipment would be a royal pain.

In reading your postings Ga.smokey I assume you're after the best of the best off the bench and the loading pressure might favor you. For me at the deer stand I generally load the gun at home before heading out and pay as much attention to detail as possible to keep what's down the pipe uniform, but loading pressure hasn't been too high up the list of have-to's. I do double check the tamp on the charge when I get settled in the stand though.

Yes sir at the moment I'm at the range almost daily so I am interested in eliminating the human factor and developing good load practices.
Deer season is a ways off so I'm getting ready in my own way so when that shot presents I'll have that confidence that only comes from putting in the time.