CVA 2021

[ENCORE50A]

Well, whatever it is I'm holding off my Paramount Pro purchase till I see what the deal is...I hunt over open corn, soybean and hay field and to be able to be lethal out to say 400 yards without buying a custom smokeless rig would be great.

You can be lethal at 400yds with a Knight 1:20 twist using the right bullet. That's with BH or Swiss. In other words, you don't have to have a custom SML.

I find it easier and cheaper to just get closer. Nobody needs to take a 400 yd shot..............

Its quite evident you don't hunt over huge agricultural fields, where the soybean field may be 250 or 300+ acres. Same with corn or any other crop. Location, wind direction, stand location and many other factors come into play. Try sneaking up on a whitetail across flat ground in a hay field, or picked bean field.

I'm not saying everyone should be taking 400yd shots, because most can't shoot 200 accurately enough. However, for those who practice diligently at long range, its entirely possible to be lethal at that range.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You're right I don't. It would be private land. However, there's lots of open shots I can take in Colorado. I have snuck up on open ground. Crawling and only moving when the game isn't looking. I'm too old for that now and stick to timber.

You don't have to take every shot you see.

 

[Pathfinder60]

You can be lethal at 400yds with a Knight 1:20 twist using the right bullet. That's with BH or Swiss. In other words, you don't have to have a custom SML.



Its quite evident you don't hunt over huge agricultural fields, where the soybean field may be 250 or 300+ acres. Same with corn or any other crop. Location, wind direction, stand location and many other factors come into play. Try sneaking up on a whitetail across flat ground in a hay field, or picked bean field.

I'm not saying everyone should be taking 400yd shots, because most can't shoot 200 accurately enough. However, for those who practice diligently at long range, its entirely possible to be lethal at that range.

I used to shoot both 300 meter and 1000 yard competitions...it's been a while but I remember how...but I have to have the right weapon and a sporter weight rig isn't cutting it. I know the 2019 Paramount will do it...I just want to wait and see what this new one is all about. 300 Win Mag performance from a front stuffer intrigues me...

 

[dozer_xj]

Here it is!

https://cva.com/product/paramount-h...uTZz2LKFA52x0E89uRyPZxsjKWul611ZKKRYNSORgluFg

 

[eekjellander]

I find it easier and cheaper to just get closer. Nobody needs to take a 400 yd shot.

A few years ago I had a .270 that would easily take long shots. I did at the range. I still took 50-75 yd shots at game.

I Don"t need to but given the skill to ,I wouldn"t think twice ! Like anything else it depends on terrain /skill and wanting to . I don"t judge it unethical if you are one of the few that do it regular ,like I shoot at 75yds (go for it) and I will say wow great shot . Everyone has a skill level ,it"s the ones that overestimate that causes problems . I try not to judge the folks that practice at longe range target so they can make ethical shots on game as I assume they also have the experience along with the skill needed , but assuming (think theres a saying somewhere)/Ed

 

[Muley Hunter]

You misunderstand me. I don't care if someone enjoys taking long shots. I find it fun for coyotes. What gets my dander up is when someone thinks they have no choice but to take long shots. Be honest and admit you do it because you enjoy it. Nobody is forced to take any shot. We all have the option to walk away from a shot.

 

[Pathfinder60]

You misunderstand me. I don't care if someone enjoys taking long shots. I find it fun for coyotes. What gets my dander up is when someone thinks they have no choice but to take long shots. Be honest and admit you do it because you enjoy it. Nobody is forced to take any shot. We all have the option to walk away from a shot.

Learning how to, practicing and succeeding at long range target aquisition is every bit as much a part of the shooting sports as short range endeavors. The skill set that it takes to close the distance between hunter and quarry goes back to our caveman roots. But it was based on necessity...crude weapons trapped us into close quarters combat.
But no more.
You'd have us going door to door with pistols and shotguns engaging targets at point blank range because it's somehow more..."pure".
Fine have it your way... but when the skirmish is over and you step out into the street and you hear a shot from above...that would be me and those like me...
The Sniper.
And equally impressive skill set and one that just kept your head from exploding into a red mist.
You think you need to take all your shots as close as possible to be validated as worthwhile then you do that.
But for me that challenge doesn't thrill me near as much as ranging that target, doping the wind, doing the math in my head, adjusting my target turrets and laying down that shot that ends the game...and it never knew what hit it.
And I do battle that way because I choose to and I know how.
And you're correct...I enjoy it.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You still didn't understand me. For the record it's hunting. Not war. I'd be willing to wager that i'm just as good as you at long shots. I just don't choose to hunt big game that way. Have you hunted coyotes in the west? The shots are long. Longer than you can take with any muzzleloader. I use a 22-250.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You hunt your way and i'll do it my way. One way is hunting and one way is shooting. Pick the one you like. I do both but the shooting one is small game.

 

[Pathfinder60]

You still didn't understand me. For the record it's hunting. Not war. I'd be willing to wager that i'm just as good as you at long shots. I just don't choose to hunt big game that way. Have you hunted coyotes in the west? The shots are long. Longer than you can take with any muzzleloader. I use a 22-250.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You hunt your way and i'll do it my way. One way is hunting and one way is shooting. Pick the one you like. I do both but the shooting one is small game.

No...I hunt them here in Ohio... where the shots can be 50 ft or 500 yards. Sometimes it's with a bow... sometimes it's with a 17HMR...and sometimes it's with a 40X in 22-250 Ackley Improved. It all depends on where I'm doing it mostly. And for the record hunting is based on the target...not the distance. If the target is an inanimate object like paper or steel, it's shooting. And if the target is a live animal regardless whether it's a game animal or a varmint, that's hunting. Be it 50ft or 500 yards...one is no less or no more honorable than the other.

 

[Muley Hunter]

No...I hunt them here in Ohio... where the shots can be 50 ft or 500 yards. Sometimes it's with a bow... sometimes it's with a 17HMR...and sometimes it's with a 40X in 22-250 Ackley Improved. It all depends on where I'm doing it mostly. And for the record hunting is based on the target...not the distance. If the target is an inanimate object like paper or steel, it's shooting. And if the target is a live animal regardless whether it's a game animal or a varmint, that's hunting. Be it 50ft or 500 yards...one is no less or no more honorable than the other.

How do you practice for your long range hunting? At targets no? What skill do you need to be a good long range hunter? You need to be a good long range shot. When I practiced for coyote hunting I was at the range. I have a 500 yd range near me and that's where I was.

Being a good shot won't make you good at getting close to game. That has to be done in the field with game. When I was in the learning process of getting close I would go in the mountains and see how close I could get to game. I was hunting without a gun. I still do that to this day.

Two different styles on taking game. One is shooting and one is hunting. You can take a sniper who never hunted in his life and put him on a mountain and tell him to glass for an elk. Tell him when you see one go ahead and shoot it. because of his shooting skills he could do that easily. Take the same sniper and tell him he has to sneak up within 40 yds of an elk and then shoot it. No calls. Just sneak. The odds are he'd fail.

Two different skills. Both take lot's of training to get good at it. One isn't better than the other. They're just different. No reason to ever feel superior about how you hunt. Do it because you enjoy it. When I say I like to sneak in close. It's not bragging. I'm just sharing what I like with friends.

 

[Pathfinder60]

How do you practice for your long range hunting? At targets no? What skill do you need to be a good long range hunter? You need to be a good long range shot. When I practiced for coyote hunting I was at the range. I have a 500 yd range near me and that's where I was.

Being a good shot won't make you good at getting close to game. That has to be done in the field with game. When I was in the learning process of getting close I would go in the mountains and see how close I could get to game. I was hunting without a gun. I still do that to this day.

Two different styles on taking game. One is shooting and one is hunting. You can take a sniper who never hunted in his life and put him on a mountain and tell him to glass for an elk. Tell him when you see one go ahead and shoot it. because of his shooting skills he could do that easily. Take the same sniper and tell him he has to sneak up within 40 yds of an elk and then shoot it. No calls. Just sneak. The odds are he'd fail.

Two different skills. Both take lot's of training to get good at it. One isn't better than the other. They're just different. No reason to ever feel superior about how you hunt. Do it because you enjoy it. When I say I like to sneak in close. It's not bragging. I'm just sharing what I like with friends.

I'm done bantering back and forth with you...you're one of those guys that always right no matter how wrong you are. I'm out. Be well.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Couldn't I say the same about you? At least I didn't laugh at you. Is that your normal reaction when someone doesn't agree with you?

 

[Pathfinder60]

Couldn't I say the same about you? At least I didn't laugh at you. Is that your normal reaction when someone doesn't agree with you?

I wasn't laughing at you...I was laughing at the futility of this situation. Be well...stay well and may all your endeavors prove fruitful.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I never know how to take that particular smiley. It seems kind of evil and I guess I take it that way.

Anyway, it's a foolish argument. I know better than to talk about hunting methods. Sometimes it's hard not being a grumpy old man.

Good hunting to you.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

So you guys are best friends now? Right? Just kidding. I did enjoy hearing the reasoning for both styles of hunting.

 

[Muley Hunter]

It wasn't that serious. Not for me anyway. Even friends don't agree sometimes.

I don't have any choice but to get close this year. I'll be using a crossbow. 40yd max. The good part is no blaze orange needed and no recoil. I love it.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Them crossbows are good for at least 100yds

 

[Muley Hunter]

So they say.

 

[brownisdown]

With a crossbow,you don't have to hunt in all the nasty weather.

 

[Pathfinder60]

So you guys are best friends now? Right? Just kidding. I did enjoy hearing the reasoning for both styles of hunting.

Speaking for myself only, we had a difference of opinion...we debated it back and forth, made ourselves clear and when it had ran it's course it was over. I have the utmost respect for Muley Hunter, his experiences and positions. We're just a couple of grumpy old men sure of what we believe and where we stand.
And I only want the best for not only him but anyone here in this forum. After all...we are all of the same tribe.