measuring black powder

[sonny from st. louis]

Thank you for the info. I now have to get the range and try out the rifle. I really do appreciate the input and I am always willing to learn.

 

[Jitterbug]

Can't say that C word but you might qualify for uninformed as most if not all competitions are won with weighed charges no matter the powder . Mine is real black and you use whatever suits you but volume is quik but not accurate as every one of those charges vary more than the weighed charge given a quality powder . The difference is quite dramatic as yardage increases ,perhaps not traditional as you'd like but it gets the job done and better if accuracy counts !/Ed

Point taken re: weighing charges for competition… but that’s not your average black powder or muzzleloader shooter.

I don’t care how anyone measures their powder charges, except when the possibility of someone doing something unsafe is brought into play.

Since there can be a difference between volumetric and weighed charges, there’s room for confusion, especially for a new shooter.

That confusion is potentially dangerous, especially with the various substitutes. Since black powder substitutes are typically more widely available than genuine black powder, many (most?) of the new shooters among us are shooting substitutes.

The folks I’m thinking of as “newbies“ or “uninformed” are the types asking about using powder out of unmarked cans, for instance. “It’s black, so I figgered it was ‘black powder.‘ Right?”


Sonny’s plan to meter out volumetric charges and then weigh them seems like a safe way for a new shooter who’s just learning, to proceed.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate all the information and the ways of doing things. This is why I joined the brotherhood. I goal is shoot and enjoy my muzzleloader. I am too old to get into anything to heavy. Cheers everyone.

 

[10acres]

I measure BP by volume and BH209 by weight. The only 777 I've used is in pellet form. I have some loose 777 but haven't used it yet and probably won't for now because I have enough BH209 to last a couple of years.

 

[TiggerLueb]

Something to consider with this topic. Moisture content in the powder can change with weighed charges, Will it have the same effect when done by volume.
I know that moisture content has a huge effect on the volume of the cattle feed that I buy in bulk.
I am not trying to ruffle anybodies feathers, I am just thinking out loud

 

[sonny from st. louis]

Thank you for the reply. I forgot to say that my powder is Goex FFg per the owners manual. In the owners manual there are chart two charts. One is for FFFg and the other is FFg. The manual and barrel says to use ONLY black powder.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

Thank you -- Everyone is so kind.

 

[mnoland30]

There was a post on here a while back (I think it was Bestill) where he measured charges and weighed charges and shot for accuracy. His conclusion was that volume was just as good as weighing as long as you were using the same lot of powder. When the lot changed, the volume per grain also changed for Blackhorn 209. I don't think he was shooting 1000 yards, but neither do I.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

Thank you.

 

[Renegadehunter]

I once wondered how much of a difference there actually was in the amount of powder between charges using a volume measure, and whether tapping the measure or not tapping made much of a difference.
I set my adjustable volume measure for 75 grains. I can't remember if I did the test with 2f or 3f, but know it was Goex. The measure has a funnel on the top that rotates over and "levels off" the top of the charge.
I filled it 10 times and weighed each charge on my powder scale so I could see the max difference between charges and the average between charges. I did 10 charges without tapping, and then 10 charges where I tapped the bottom of the measure on the top of the table 2 times and then topped the measure off (I tap on the top of my muzzle when hunting or at a shoot).
I can't remember specific numbers very well, but there was quite a bit of difference between the two. Not tapping had around a 2 grain more extreme spread than tapping did, as well as a higher average spread between charges.

It's easy to test yourself, give it a try and see what results you get.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

Thank you. When I get time I will do that. What I plan on doing do ten tests without tapping. Do testing for 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 taps. My is preparing for total knee replacement surgery. It might be awhile before I can do it. I will be looking for low humidity day to do the test. My basement will sometimes get down to 30% humidity. I will let you know.

 

[Okie Hog]

100 measured grains of black powder weighs 100 grains, depending on the brand and its granulation: GOEX 2F is heavier than GOEX 3F.

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
Decades ago i researched the weight vs volume thing using Du Pont powder. Sometimes the five shot group at 100 yards was 1/4-1/2 inch smaller with weighed charges, sometimes not. For hunting purposes weighing charges is a waste of time.

When measuring charges i fill the measure over full and strike it level with a finger. No tapping, no nothing.

The type of measure matters too. IME: This is the best measure:

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...ges&utm_term=shooting &utm_content=Range Gear

 

[sonny from st. louis]

The measure I bought goes from 0 - 120 grv and has a swing around funnel. I bought the powder measure with the rifle. I think I will over fill slightly and then cut it level with the funnel. Thank you for reading the thread.

 

[deermanok]

They stamp Black Powder Only on the barrels as a legal warning. They don't want people using "smokeless" Powder.
Substitute Black powder is perfectly fine to use.
Pyrodex or Triple 7. There's a few others out there but these are the most popular and available.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

In the owner's manual, they show only black powder loading. Is there a conversion table from FFg and FFFg to these substitute powders. Should contact the manufacture of these substitute powders for a conversion. Thank you for the reply.

 

[deermanok]

Generally speaking, you would use about 10-15% less of a given charge of say, 3f vs 2f to achieve the same velocity.
Same thing with substitute powder.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

Thank you for your reply

 

[deermanok]

I mentioned sub powders because in one of your previous posts, you say that you're using Goex black powder.
I don't know how much you have on hand?
Goex has gone out of business recently, so there won't be any more available any time soon. A new owner has taken over but production may not resume for quite some time, years maybe.
The only real black powder currently available is Swiss or Schuetzen. Both are good products, I prefer Swiss 3f in my guns. I also use Triple 7 2f in a couple guns.

 

[sonny from st. louis]

I have two pounds of Goex FFg black powder. I purchased them from MidwayUSA. Thanks for the information.

 

[njdevilfire]

Right now, I use Triple 7 FFG powder because:
1. Pellets are illegal in my state (Colorado) for hunting and you must use loose powder
2. BH209 has become damn near impossible to find

Sounds like you're familiar with loose Triple 7 FFg. My average load is 80-90 grains by volume as opposed to 100 grains, depending on the animal. I have never used a mag load because my state does not allow scopes, either, and the velocity I get from 90 grains puts elk down at 100 yards, no problem. Just my two cents, bruh. Good luck.