1/8" wool felt powder wads for .50 cal............

[ElDiablo]

The best way to detect blow-by gasses in the bore, is with a chronometer,

How would you detect it with a chronometer?

 

[bronko220002]

Ahh drpatton you hit the nail on the head. Therein lies the major cause of accuracy and that is the deformation of the base of the bullet. The base of the bullet is of major importance to accuracy. Any nick, ding on the edge, irregular rounded corner or damage from gases will degrade accuracy. That is why a wad is usually recommended for full bore conicals. I've learned this from people that shoot their muzzys at incredible distances.

 

[bronko220002]

How would you detect it with a chronometer?

I believe they are talking about differences in velocity. But honestly I think the velocity difference would be insignificant unless the bullet was undersized to begin with.

 

[eekjellander]

This myth may have started with smooth bores. Mainly cannon. They used wads to seal the undersized steel balls, which did not expand in the bore.

Obturation effects all types of metal, but at different rates and some, due to their hardness, the effect is negligible. Lead, is malleable enough to be compressed into the grooves of rifling, whereas steel is not.

If a bullet is not sealed in the bore, the loss of gas pressure will result in a loss of velocity. Also the burning gas will act like a torch and burn into the metal. This will cause an enormous loss in accuracy. If there are blow-by gasses, this will occur on the bearing sides as well as the base of the bullet. If no blow-by gasses, it will only occur to the base of the bullet. Either way, there is a loss of accuracy; However, it would be more extreme in a non-sealed bore with blow-by gasses.

The best way to detect blow-by gasses in the bore, is with a chronometer, due to the loss in pressure versus a sealed bore. Also, accuracy may be used. In the blow-by situation, most of the bullet's surface is effected and an extreme loss of accuracy should be noted. With a sealed bore, only the bottom of the bullet is effected and accuracy will be diminished, but not to the extreme level of a blow-by situation.

Sorry, the engineer in me is coming out.

A welcome change from the old wifes tales found on the internet, right up there with seasoning your barrel with bore butter !!!/Ed

 

[drpatton]

A welcome change from the old wifes tales found on the internet, right up there with seasoning your barrel with bore butter !!!/Ed

I thought you seasoned a bore with "Old Bay"

 

[drpatton]

How would you detect it with a chronometer?

If gasses are blowing by the bullet in the bore, it means there is less gass to push the bullet. If there is just a small pin hole. the gas will cut through it like a torch. If there is less gas to push the bullet, there is less pressure. That means lower velocity.

 

[ElDiablo]

If gasses are blowing by the bullet in the bore, it means there is less gass to push the bullet. If there is just a small pin hole. the gas will cut through it like a torch. If there is less gas to push the bullet, there is less pressure. That means lower velocity.

Yeah, I’m just thinking you probably mean chronograph?

 

[drpatton]

Yeah, I’m just thinking you probably mean chronograph?

Yes. I did. Although both use time as a base, one does more with it.

 

[bronko220002]

The more I think on this the more I realize that using a chronograph would be useless. I would almost guarantee that any changes in velocity would be insignificant. I would also guarantee that using a lubed full bore properly fitting conical no gases would be able to blow completely past the bullet. Any reduction in accuracy would be the direct result of hot gases deforming the base of the bullet. A bit of lube on the wad would help a lot. It can be easily proved by using a blower attachment on a compressor and note the difference on the amount of air flow thru the wad with and without lube. I tried it.
With the pressure turned down there is quite a bit more air flow thru the dry wad over the lubed one.

 

[eekjellander]

The more I think on this the more I realize that using a chronograph would be useless. I would almost guarantee that any changes in velocity would be insignificant. I would also guarantee that using a lubed full bore properly fitting conical no gases would be able to blow completely past the bullet. Any reduction in accuracy would be the direct result of hot gases deforming the base of the bullet. A bit of lube on the wad would help a lot. It can be easily proved by using a blower attachment on a compressor and note the difference on the amount of air flow thru the wad with and without lube. I tried it.
With the pressure turned down there is quite a bit more air flow thru the dry wad over the lubed one.

Again you'd be wrong but I quit , this is ridiculous arguing with a know it all who doesn't/Ed

 

[bronko220002]

Don't just tell me I'm wrong. Explain why. With or without a wad, with a properly sized and lubed bullet it is almost impossible to get gas blow by the entire bullet, even with a patched round ball. I say almost impossible because there is a slim to none chance. That being said any velocity loss with a lubed wad or dry wad would be insignificant. And you can't tell me less gas doesn't pass thru a lubed wad vs a dry wad. Logic qould prove that is a fact.
Now please explain why I am wrong and if it makes sense and valid proof I will accept it.

 

[drpatton]

A place to find wads and round ball patches.
https://www.deercreekproducts.net/store/c42/Shooting_Patches.html

 

[Bad Karma]

I am new to wads. In my 40 years of muzzleloading I never thought of using them. Now, I won't shoot without them, with the exception of hollow based bullets. I also never used them in revolvers. I used Crisco to coat the top of the exposed ball to prevent chain fires.

I am a natural experimenter. It's my personality. So, before I was on this forum, I made my own lube (discussed in another thread). It was a hard almost solid paste, which turned pure wool felt pads into little pucks. I assumed they melted a bit in the barrel. I never thought to look for used wads (how do I know mine from someone else's?).

I may try to lube 1/4 of the 1/8" felt pad, with my new home made lube. It would barely give it a skim of lube, and used face up, will not be in contact with the powder. I will only do this with my Renegades. Not in a new rifle where I'm trying to find a the right bullet and/or load.

I don't know the engineering behind the "Wonder Wads." It may be just a gimmick." It also, may be designed to spread during the heat of firing. I have them dry and lubed. I also bought Dura-Felt to punch my own, which is due to arrive today. I already have the punches.

DR, when shooting hollow base bullets I use a ball of wool as a wad. Just as it comes off the sheep. Well, it’s washed but that’s it. I use a piece about the size of one of my wifes cotton balls and it serves the same function as a wad except it doesn’t get stuck into the base of the bullet. Works very well.

 

[eekjellander]

Don't just tell me I'm wrong. Explain why. With or without a wad, with a properly sized and lubed bullet it is almost impossible to get gas blow by the entire bullet, even with a patched round ball. I say almost impossible because there is a slim to none chance. That being said any velocity loss with a lubed wad or dry wad would be insignificant. And you can't tell me less gas doesn't pass thru a lubed wad vs a dry wad. Logic qould prove that is a fact.
Now please explain why I am wrong and if it makes sense and valid proof I will accept it.

Be cause the wad (LUBED) rides with the bullet destabilizing at yardage like sabots .o60 poly wads in ,my
C Sharps/Pedersoli Sharps (1874 45/70 s as anyone with experience knows for fact ! While you babble about BS I just remembered I said I was done trying to educate you ,so play with blowers and I'll stick to guns /LATER Ed

 

[bronko220002]

Boy you are something else. I'm trying to find a logical explanation and you have yet to give me one. An oversized wad (54 in a 50) will come off at the muzzle. If what you say is true then why do a lot of rifles shoot saboted bullets so accurately - better than full bore conicals? I'm being logical but you're just blowing smoke because that's your opinion Give me something to prove its fact and not just your opinion.
I'm also trying to understand what you mean about the poly wads! Seems like you just stuck that in there and its incoherent.
Forget the wads for a second and please tell me how you can get gas blowing completely by a properly lubed and sized for bore conical bullet. I'm not talking about just the base of the bullet but all the way past it. Obturation and lube form a gas seal.
A dry wad will help protect the base for sure but a lubed one will protect the base of the bullet better. And its the base that steers the bullet. Any flaw at the base will effect accuracy.
Now prove me otherwise or run home with your ball.
Oh BTW I also have a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps .45-70 and I shoot 500 gr cast out of it. That thing shoot fantastic and smacks the steel gongs at 300 and 400 yards.

 

[bronko220002]

Well after a lot of reading apparently it doesn't make a difference whether lubed or dry. One consenses is that a lubed wad if over the powder for a length of time can contaminate some of the powder. If a paste type lube is used I can see where it may contaminate a couple granules of powder on the top - or more if stayed loaded for a long period of time. I wish I was able to go and shoot to do some testing but be able to get out until late May.