.54 Renegade/ Lyman Plains

[Confederate rifleman]

NOT good...
The bullet thumbed in with little pressure up to the top band. Even that went in with modest thumb pressure.
However. Once it popped past the crown, it wound up about 2 inches down bore! It went to the powder with just the weight of my rammer!
Accuracy was VERY poor. " Groups" at 50 yards were around 4 inches. I shot 3 without swabbing, and they barely stayed on the paper.
The load was the .54 Lyman Plains, lubed with SPG, an ox yoke wad and 70 grains of 3f Swiss.
I think the muzzle is tight. I notice that a tight patch on a jag hangs up slightly at the muzzle. Also explains the problem with patched ball...
So. I have to figure a way to lap the muzzle EVER so slightly. Then I can get to seeing how she shoots.
I think a bit of valve grinding compound on a patch strip. Put a ball in it and push it in. Then pull it back out, rotate a bit and repeat until the muzzle area is what it should be.
Btw, no leading to speak of.

 

[Idaholewis]

Something is definitely Wrong, These Bullets (50 and 54) have Shot Good, to Exceptional in EVERY Muzzleloader i have Shot them in, From 1:28 to 1:48 Twists, I have sent them to Several Folks Across the United States and have had gotten nothing but Stellar Feed Back.

What does your Bullet Weigh in at? Can you get reasonably Accurate Measurements of the Bands?

 

[Idaholewis]

I seen in another Thread where you mention 425 Grains for the .54 Cal, That Bullet Should weigh a MINIMUM of 450 Grains, And More like 460 Grains. Your 425 Grains is WAY Off. Did you Cast these of An Alloy, or a KNOWN Source of Pure Lead?

 

[Matthew323]

I seen in another Thread where you mention 425 Grains for the .54 Cal, That Bullet Should weigh a MINIMUM of 450 Grains, And More like 460 Grains. Your 425 Grains is WAY Off. Did you Cast these of An Alloy, or a KNOWN Source of Pure Lead?

To be that far off of the 450-460 grains that you get Lewis, the alloy has to be close to wheel weight metal.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Hi
Bottom band .540 mid and upper bands .546. Weights between 455.4 and 457 grains. The lead cut easily with a fingernail, pretty scientific huh?
What got me was after the top band got past the crown ( thumb pressure!), the force of doing so propelled the bullet down bore a couple inches.
A check with my .50 Hawken ( both barrels) did not show a similar tendency.
Once the mid bands of the .54 cleared the crown, the bullet wobbled in the bore a bit. Makes me think there's a tight spot right at the crown and a bit back.

 

[Idaholewis]

To be that far off of the 450-460 grains that you get Lewis, the alloy has to be close to wheel weight metal.

Something is definitely ODD with the 425 Grain Weight? And His Bullet to Bore Fit being so loose? It makes me think it’s a Casting issue, Like Very Poor Fillout

 

[Idaholewis]

Hi
Bottom band .540 mid and upper bands .546. Weights between 455.4 and 457 grains. The lead cut easily with a fingernail, pretty scientific huh?
What got me was after the top band got past the crown ( thumb pressure!), the force of doing so propelled the bullet down bore a couple inches.
A check with my .50 Hawken ( both barrels) did not show a similar tendency.
Once the mid bands of the .54 cleared the crown, the bullet wobbled in the bore a bit. Makes me think there's a tight spot right at the crown and a bit back.

My last post Crossed here. Ok that sounds right. You have a HUGE Bore

 

[Matthew323]

Confederate Rifleman

Are you using a thermometer to check the casting temp of your lead?

Edit: I apologize for missing how little pressure it took to seat the first bullet. It seems like an oversized bore to me also. Is it worth it to pull the barrel, remove the breech plug, and slug the barrel from the breech end?

 

[Idaholewis]

Hi
Bottom band .540 mid and upper bands .546. Weights between 455.4 and 457 grains. The lead cut easily with a fingernail, pretty scientific huh?
What got me was after the top band got past the crown ( thumb pressure!), the force of doing so propelled the bullet down bore a couple inches.
A check with my .50 Hawken ( both barrels) did not show a similar tendency.
Once the mid bands of the .54 cleared the crown, the bullet wobbled in the bore a bit. Makes me think there's a tight spot right at the crown and a bit back.

How does the Bore look? Any signs of Pitting? I have seen a few of these Barrels that were NOT Concentric. Even my 1:20 Twist Rice Barrel Isn’t.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

No pitting or excessive tool marks. No chance I could take the plug off. When I had my .50 barrel rebored, the plug REALLY got beat up.
I may try the " lap" I posted of earlier. Not much to lose. Otherwise this will be strictly a ball barrel.

 

[Idaholewis]

The 3 things that I question is your Powder, Lead (Hardness), and SPG Lube? I use to shoot Swiss 3F a few years Ago, Something happened to it? Maybe i got a Bad Lot? Regardless, I couldn’t hit a Barn if i were Standing inside it, I had MANY Outings that were HORRIBLE, 3-5 inch Groups had become the New Norm?? I was confident it wasn’t me, This was with Well proven Loads from Previous Outings. 1 day i decided to Try Swiss 2F, My Guns Came ALIVE again! That was the END of me and 3F Grade Swiss, I stil have this Can of 3F, I use it to Foul the Bore OFF Target, I am literally Throwing it Away. When this Can is finally gone there will be NO more Swiss 3F for me. If you have any other Powder? Even Subs, Such as Triple 7, I would try a Group with it

Get yourself a Few Pounds of a TRUSTED Source of PURE Soft Lead, I feel it to be VERY IMPORTANT in these Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels

Bullet Lube can Make, or Break Accuracy, Back when i first had my Bullshop Clone Bullet Mold Made, I was having a HARD time getting it to Shoot? I Contacted Dan of Bullshop, I sent him Pics of My new Bullet Standing beside his Original, The Very FIRST thing that Dan Asked me was “Is that SPG Bullet Lube?” I Told him No, That it was my Own Home Made Concoction, Dan explained to me that Lube can Play a BIG Role in Accuracy. I had nothing to lose, I ended up Thinning my Lube WAY Down with Castor Oil and Tried it Again, BINGO! My Bullet Shot Extremely Well. I have to Wonder Why Bullshop Dan asked me if i were using SPG Bullet Lube? When it comes to Bullet Lube for my Muzzleloaders, i have found Thinner is Better. You might try and Thin Some SPG Down with Olive Oil, Get it where it will just Barely Stay in the Grooves, And try a Group

 

[sdporter]

http://www.brushresearch.com/flex-hone-tool.phpSave you a ton of time if they have one that fits

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I'm getting some pure lead soon. Not sure of the make up of my current melt, but a lot of it is Hornady balls of calibers I no longer shoot.
I have a couple pounds of 2f Swiss and will try it in my .50's.
I'm not getting the same issue with the .50 calibers, cast from the same melt. Now I haven't shot them yet. Just rammed to see if I would.
I didn't think SPG was particularly heavy as lubes go. Being primarily a hunter, runny lubes are a bit of a pain. Fine for range work. What about Alox?
The home seems like an interesting option. The tight area is very short though. Chance to get things cockeyed.
Ugh! Why me?
There's much to learn about conical. Glad to be learning from the best!

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I tried one of my Lyman's in a Hoyt .54 rebore. That barrel is a .540 bore and the Lyman went in as expected and not a hint of being loose.
So that confirms that the issue is the barrel. Or at the very least, the muzzle.
If you don't know what it is, first determine what it is not. A useful bit of wisdom from the original Star Trek series!

 

[Idaholewis]

I tried one of my Lyman's in a Hoyt .54 rebore. That barrel is a .540 bore and the Lyman went in as expected and not a hint of being loose.
So that confirms that the issue is the barrel. Or at the very least, the muzzle.
If you don't know what it is, first determine what it is not. A useful bit of wisdom from the original Star Trek series!

Glad to Hear, Make that other Barrel your Patched Ball Shooter

 

[Idaholewis]

My Lead Pot is Melting as i type this, I am Gonna pour up a Fresh Batch of .54 Lyman Plains, I will be back Shortly with the Measurements of my Bullet, I can’t remember exactly what mine Measured? I Will know for Sure in a Few Minutes. I have a Casting Tip to Share with ya as Well on this Bullet

 

[Matthew323]

My Lead Pot is Melting as i type this, I am Gonna pour up a Fresh Batch of .54 Lyman Plains, I will be back Shortly with the Measurements of my Bullet, I can’t remember exactly what mine Measured? I Will know for Sure in a Few Minutes. I have a Casting Tip to Share with ya as Well on this Bullet

Lewis
What temperature do you try to keep the lead at while making bullets?

 

[Idaholewis]

Lewis
What temperature do you try to keep the lead at while making bullets?

I Cast Pure Lead at 700-725

 

[Idaholewis]

I tried one of my Lyman's in a Hoyt .54 rebore. That barrel is a .540 bore and the Lyman went in as expected and not a hint of being loose.
So that confirms that the issue is the barrel. Or at the very least, the muzzle.
If you don't know what it is, first determine what it is not. A useful bit of wisdom from the original Star Trek series!

Your Bullet Band Numbers are Right on with mine Mark By your Band Diameters, and Weight, You are Casting a Nice Bullet. My Bottom Band measures .539-.540 (Not perfectly Round) and Forward Driving Band is .545-.546 (again, not perfectly Round) These Bullets i just Cast Were as Perfectly Filled out as i could Possibly Cast them.

There’s Something Odd with that Barrel?

 

[sdporter]

I'm getting some pure lead soon. Not sure of the make up of my current melt, but a lot of it is Hornady balls of calibers I no longer shoot.
I have a couple pounds of 2f Swiss and will try it in my .50's.
I'm not getting the same issue with the .50 calibers, cast from the same melt. Now I haven't shot them yet. Just rammed to see if I would.
I didn't think SPG was particularly heavy as lubes go. Being primarily a hunter, runny lubes are a bit of a pain. Fine for range work. What about Alox?
The home seems like an interesting option. The tight area is very short though. Chance to get things cockeyed.
Ugh! Why me?
There's much to learn about conical. Glad to be learning from the best!

Yes, if you’re not careful you could get things “cattywampus” (see what I did there) I think it’s your best bet to correct the issue, either that or cut off the offending area and re-crown, or try round balls as Lewis suggested, after you try the pure lead.