6.5x50 Arisaka

[Archie otto]

"Had to modify the feed ramp and mag follower to accept the .45-70 though."

That's what I mean, is it an extensive modification? I have seen the Siamese Mausers rebarreled for the .45-70  :cheers: and there are feeding issues there also.  Nothing insurmountable or overly complicated.

In regards to the No.4 MKII Enfield action, are there pressure limitations?

 

[Spitfire1]

The No4 Mk2 can take a lot more pressure than the rest of the Lee actions ,don't know the pressure limit though.  We use the No4 and P14 or P17's when building to take the .303 Epps Improved cartridge.

 

[Archie otto]

I have had a few P14's that I thought about reaming to the improved Epps case but sold them for a profit before doing it.  I think the .303 is one of the best cartridges to improve because the velocity potential and the long throats of the Enfields allows for seating the bullets out further.

 

[Spitfire1]

You're right , by turning the .303 into an Epps Improved you can nearly duplicate .300 H&H Mag ballistics with hot handloads.

The P14 action we use for most any big bore calibre , but they take a heck of a lot of reworking to make them look nice but they are very strong.

 

[Archie otto]

They do take a lot of work and I think that is the main reason I hesitated to sporterize them.  I put a 1917 Springfield magazine box in one and that gave me even more room to extend OAL.  When my machinist gunsmith started taking about costs of rebarreling and milling ears etc. that was enough to prompt the sale.  If a guy wants a truly big bore bolt gun from a surplus rifle action that is the way to go.

Speaking of Arisaka's, those little gems take a bit of extra machine work to rebarrel also.  All the younger smiths around here want a premium to do the job.  I ran into an older guy who had done hundreds of them back in the 1950's and 1960's and he did two for me for a very reasonable cost.  He did a .308 win and a 6.5-257 Roberts improved (6.5x57 imp) for me both on type 38 actions.

 

[Spitfire1]

I still want to neck the .303 down to 6,5mm , should make a fine small game calibre using 120 - 130gr bullets.

 

[Archie otto]

I have taken many whitetail deer using 120 gr. 6.5mm bullets out of the 6.5x55, 6.5-.257 Roberts improved and 6.5-.284 win.  They say the 6.5x55 and 140 gr bullets are used to take moose and elk up in Northern Europe.  I think the .303 should do about the same and if you gave it the Epps improvement a slow powder like 4831 and a long enough barrel 2900 to 3000 fps is not out of the question.

 

[Spitfire1]

I'm not worried about velocity much as the areas we normally hunt in is very bushy so distances are very short, 2300 to 2500fps is plenty for me . But with a 120 or 130 gr 6,5mm bullet the BC will be very high and that bullet will penetrate like hell.

 

[Archie otto]

Yes they do tend to be long for caliber and that is what gives them their penetration qualities. They are mostly underrated and overlooked here in the US.  I think that is because the cartridge companies have tried to push them too fast with over bore magnum cartridges.  Keep them guys around running under 2800 and they will do many things bigger bullets can't and without the heavy recoil. But that does not feed the American big velocity ego.  For me velocity is a useful tool for understanding trajectory and energy but can add a sense of fun to load development and also serve as a warning to possible pressure issues.

 

[Spitfire1]

To me energy is relative ...look at the numbers generated by a .54 PRB or a traditional 45-70 BP round and then go look at how effective they are even though their paper ballistics are very poor.

 

[Archie otto]

Relative is right, they are poor performers relative to a thirty-ot-six but were killing real animals quite well for a long time before the invent of smokeless powder.

 

[Spitfire1]

Yeah I think we got spoiled by the CF's.... 

 

[Archie otto]

Spoiled is right, however, scoped HP rifles made shooting deer so easy and even boring that I started looking for something more challenging.  That is why I am back at black powder guns with open sights and "rainbow" trajectories.

 

[Spitfire1]

Same here ...with modern rifles and loads hunting went out the back door and the best shot brought home the bacon.

 

[patocazador]

I belonged to a trophy-hunting club for over 20 years. Shooting a deer was a piece of cake with a modern rifle. Many switched to bow-hunting, muzzleloading, or pistol hunting.
I chose pistol and it still was easy but not real easy.

 

[Archie otto]

Hunting big game with hand guns is something I have not tried yet. I have given it some thought but my hand guns are all .45 acp. I get the challenge though and it would take a bunch of practice with a new gun for me to get comfortable.

After switching back to black powder for hunting, the first deer I took with a Renegade and iron sights was a very satisfying experience because I had to concentrate and focus on the basic shooting skills.  All of a sudden it got exciting again. Now at some point every single day I think about what my next muzzleloader project will be.  I keep going back and ogling the fullstock flintlock Hawken kit at Track of the Wolf.  Now that looks like a challenge both to build and hunt with!

 

[Spitfire1]

Hunting with a flinty is a real challenge but very satisfying.

 

[Archie otto]

Maybe even a little intimidating....

 

[Spitfire1]

Only intimidating if you don't know your flintlock , once you know their likes and dislikes they really aren't that fickle.....

 

[Archie otto]

I have been reading a "talking" on some of the traditional forums about flinters.  As with anything, practice makes perfect..... so I suppose I need to build me one and go from there.