Accurate 5744
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That is the same thing I heard about Reloader 7 powder.It shoots great and I can't tell the difference in the cleaning.And the deer are just as dead.
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In a 45 with sabots you will max out pretty fast before sabots start failing. Might be good for about 2200-2300fps with a 200gr? Both N110 and 4759 can match that easily. I know some of the guys are using 4227 sabotless but i would really like to see the traces for some of the loads ive seen recommended. Im betting its pretty high.
If i was going to use 5744 in a 45 i would look into sabotless lead conical and stay in the "trap door" 45/70 type loads. You would probably need harder than pure lead and a good tight wad for sure. If you kept the speed slow enough you might be able to use a softer alloy???
If i was going to use 5744 in a 45 i would look into sabotless lead conical and stay in the "trap door" 45/70 type loads. You would probably need harder than pure lead and a good tight wad for sure. If you kept the speed slow enough you might be able to use a softer alloy???
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Another thing to think about would be paper patching. Depending on the alloy (resisting nose slump), the paper used, how it's wrapped, and if it's lubed, it can work with even CF uber-magnums. Wadding honestly is almost always a good idea across powders, in my experience.
3-5% Antimony+3-5% Tin (some people add 1-1.5%Copper Sulphate to the mix to keep the bullet together better on impact)+ balance in lead. Adjust small batches of your alloy until you get your best groups. Sir Samuel Baker wrote about using Arsenic and Quick Silver (AKA Mercury) to make hardened hunting bullets that don't fragment, but Antimony and Copper is a little safer to mess with.
3-5% Antimony+3-5% Tin (some people add 1-1.5%Copper Sulphate to the mix to keep the bullet together better on impact)+ balance in lead. Adjust small batches of your alloy until you get your best groups. Sir Samuel Baker wrote about using Arsenic and Quick Silver (AKA Mercury) to make hardened hunting bullets that don't fragment, but Antimony and Copper is a little safer to mess with.
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Trap door data is already available for 5744 so its very likely you would be in the ballpark for fps and not a huge increase in pressure. I would expect a pressure increase though unless using compressed load data. Hodgdons data for 5744 does not specify density of the loads unless i missed it. I didnt look at the old Accurate load data but it might.
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You can't really use cartridge load data 1:1 for SML's. In most cartridge loadings, you have space in the chamber to pressurize with gas before it starts to push against the bullet. This reduces the peak pressures (depending on how much space is left over in the case that can either be a lot or a little). Hodgdon's max load for 5774 for 405gr bullets is 27 gr, with a pressure of 16,573psi. That load only takes up around 40% of the powder capacity though. Make that a 100% load density load (make the bullet base touch the powder, like in a SML), and that same powder charge makes a pressure of around 57,000PSI (that's 460 SW territory, and actually, Hodgdon has a load for that on their site, though it maxes out at 32gr for that pressure, and still isn't a 100% density load, I want to say that's around 90-95%).
I believe it was Remington/UMC that documented tests on this in the early 20th century, with .38spl (?) revolvers. Same charge, same bullet, just progressively seated deeper until the revolver blew. They were experimenting with seating depths and how that interacts with pressures, and then it was later released (I want to say in the 50's or 60's) as a PSA for handloaders, to reinforce why seating depth is important for load data.
My personal experience with this was loading Herco in 9x19mm and .38spl. 3gr of Herco in a .38 with a 158gr bullet is a normal load (around 900fps and normal low pressures), but that same charge with a 125gr bullet in a 9x19 case is +P (that is a compressed load, BTW).
I believe it was Remington/UMC that documented tests on this in the early 20th century, with .38spl (?) revolvers. Same charge, same bullet, just progressively seated deeper until the revolver blew. They were experimenting with seating depths and how that interacts with pressures, and then it was later released (I want to say in the 50's or 60's) as a PSA for handloaders, to reinforce why seating depth is important for load data.
My personal experience with this was loading Herco in 9x19mm and .38spl. 3gr of Herco in a .38 with a 158gr bullet is a normal load (around 900fps and normal low pressures), but that same charge with a 125gr bullet in a 9x19 case is +P (that is a compressed load, BTW).
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Im pretty sure that is what i said and when adding a wad that gives a gap too. Plus there is no forcing cone effect into the lands. The bullet will move much further forward before fully engaging the rifling. It will create its own "less than compressed" density before it ever reaches its peak. If it didnt all these sml loads you see listed for sabotless would be bursting barrels.
Imagine a Scout conversion using way more 4198 than you can ever shove in a 45/70 and its compressed. Ive yet to hear of one bursting with recommended loads but its WAY over 45/70 data.
Imagine a Scout conversion using way more 4198 than you can ever shove in a 45/70 and its compressed. Ive yet to hear of one bursting with recommended loads but its WAY over 45/70 data.
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Here is a handful of 5744 loads for 45sml....Its 209 and not LRMP so the safe bet is add about 10-15% peak to that. My guess was about right for a 200gr sabot load.
https://app.box.com/s/7u86evwrvgn3wmxpdzndtnzjcr04dfv2
https://app.box.com/s/7u86evwrvgn3wmxpdzndtnzjcr04dfv2
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In my post #18 I should have mentioned that my experiences with AA5744 have been with
50 cal SML’s.
Not 45’s.
Better powder choices available for 45’s.
4198 seems to have been a go to for 45’s.
Kinda of a “ KISS” method.
50 cal SML’s.
Not 45’s.
Better powder choices available for 45’s.
4198 seems to have been a go to for 45’s.
Kinda of a “ KISS” method.
I can't speak to a .45 caliber. However, I can speak to my Savage 10ML-II .50 cal using AA5744. The preferred load in my ml is 44 gr of 5744 behind a 300 gr Hornady SST using the black sabots. This put me in the 2,050 fps range. This gives me everything I need.
Those that want more speed will definitely pay for it in recoil. If I can't do it with this load, I don't need to take the shot. As to being "dirty", compared to what? It's much cleaner than BH209 or any other BP sub.
Those that want more speed will definitely pay for it in recoil. If I can't do it with this load, I don't need to take the shot. As to being "dirty", compared to what? It's much cleaner than BH209 or any other BP sub.
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N110 is far far cleaner and just as reliable. Need less powder too vs 5744.
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Years ago I used 5744 in my optima elete 4570 conversion and with 40 gr of it with a 200gr xtp I would get 2300fps with a 24in barrel. With 42gr I would get 2400 fps. Sense then I moved on to 4759 and like it a lot more. I forgot to mention I was using 40cal bullets in harvester smooth blue sabots and both those loads were same hole groups.
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5744 is the only powder I've used in my 10ML for almost 20 years. 43gr with mmp sabot and .452 Hornady xtp and has never let me down. Finally wiped barrel after 3 years of hunting and this was before pic. Stayed very clean. Approximately 25 shots through it since last cleaning. 
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My smokeless Savage 10 ML II does well with Accurate 5744 and Hornady XTP 250 gr bullets. I've listed below a couple loads for Lil Gun that I have not tested yet. I weigh all of my charges vs using a volume dipper for measurement.
Accurate 5744 44 gr.- 250 gr. Hornady .452 XTP + Sabot - 2,267 fps - 2,837 fpe
Accurate 5744 44 gr.- 250 gr. Hornady .452 XTP + Sabot - 2,267 fps - 2,837 fpe
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I don’t think I’ve ever seen published/posted pressure trace data on Lil Gun in a sml. Is there some out there?
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Here's some Published Loads below that I found years ago when these guns were popular. I've only tested the ACCURATE 5744 loads with good success.
SAVAGE ARMS RECOMMENDED POWDER LOADS
| IMR-4227 | |||
| 46 gr. | 250 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,147 f.p.s. | 2,550 f.p.e. |
| 46 gr. | 300 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,080 f.p.s. | 2,880 f.p.e. |
| 48 gr. | 250 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,254 f.p.s. | 2,820 f.p.e. |
| 48 gr. | 300 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,166 f.p.s. | 3,120 f.p.e. |
| Accurate Arms XMP-5744 | |||
| 41 gr. | 250 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,170 f.p.s. | 2,612 f.p.e. |
| 41 gr. | 300 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,110 f.p.s. | 2,940 f.p.e. |
| 44 gr. | 250 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,267 f.p.s. | 2,837 f.p.e. |
| 44 gr. | 300 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,218 f.p.s. | 3,270 f.p.e. |
| VIHTAVOURI N110 | |||
| 41 gr. | 250 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,240 f.p.s. | 2,785 f.p.e. |
| 41 gr. | 300 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,133 f.p.s. | 3,030 f.p.e. |
| 44.5 gr. (weighted) | 250 gr. Hornady .452² XTP | 2,368 f.p.s. | 3,100 f.p.e. |
| (3.7cc Lee dipper) | 250 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,353 f.p.s. | 3,075 f.p.e. |
| 44.5 gr. (weighted) | 300 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,244 f.p.s. | 3,360 f.p.e. |
| 44.4 gr. (3.7 cc Lee dipper) | 300 gr. Hornady .452" XTP | 2,227 f.p.s. | 3,300 f.p.e. |
NOTICE: This website is not affiliated with Savage Arms in any form or fashion. If you go above the safety margin for the rifle, you do so at your own risk. Any loads or recommendations on this site has proven safe in the test rifle, however, may or may not be safe in your rifle. You are solely responsible for any injury or damages resulting from any data on this website. This website or authors will not be held responsible. Due to variations in guns, it is strongly recommended to start at a lower load and slowly work up from there.
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Boy that's a lot of Lil'Gun. I shoot it from a completely custom 450 Bushmaster with a 250gr bullet at 2,200fps with 37.9grs, the max listed by Hornady. At least the last data I have.
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Thanks, yeah, I’ve seen that data. Shame there’s no pressure numbers. I’d be curious about Lil Gun in a .45.
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IIRC Savage dropped Lil Gun as a recommended powder because of over pressure issues.
