Direct Ignition -- Omega

[ronlaughlin]

Let's start this thread with a post by Jeff Fisk (Bestill Creations)

700ml , savage ml and omega cant handle direct charge pressure due to design.
Such as bolt retaining pin.
Flash hole and flame channel reduce pressure on primer and action.

Direct ignition is being utilized on smokeless builds but exclusively on locking lug actions and break action sml builds.

Use caution with direct ignition

The Hankins breech plug, and modules were provided by billyboy*

Several modules were primed with Federal 215 magnum large rifle primers. Fit was perfect. This was impossible to do without putting a dab of oil on the inner rim of the module. A primed module was installed into the breech plug; the bottom threads of the plug wrapped with a single wrap of plumber's tape, and then installed into the 45 caliber Omega. Only 50 grain of Blackhorn was poured down the barrel of the rifle, and a vegetable fiber wad pushed down to the powder. The bullet is a 250g Deep Curl sized to 0.4505" slips easily down the barrel to the powder. Modules were replaced, and rifle was reloaded.




Six shots through the clock:

1498 fps
1522
1449
1521
1493
1463

Average = 1492 fps

The Direct Ignition plug was changed to a Bestill plug set up to work with CCI primers, and Federal 209A primers. Using the same load, except the primer was changed to the 209A, shots were clocked.

1303 fps
1305
1314

Average = 1307 fps






Shooting was done at 31°, which made fingers cold. Couldn't feel the wads, but none were dropped, and shooting was uneventful.

 

[GM54-120]

I understand the difference in DI and 209 plugs but that increase is huge. Surely some of that added fps is due to how hot a LRMP really is.

I wonder how far the LRMP DI system will move a ramrod without any powder. Just a ramrod with a patched jag and primer only.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Weren't those advocating replacement of shotgun primers doing so, because they claimed the shotgun primers pushed the bullet off the powder?

 

[billyboy*]

THANK YOU, RON! Great Information, that System should Save some Precious BH 209 Powder

I understand the difference in DI and 209 plugs but that increase is huge. Surely some of that added fps is due to how hot a LRMP really is.

.080" Orifice Flash Hole vs .030" probably Helps.

 

[52Bore]

Weren't those advocating replacement of shotgun primers doing so, because they claimed the shotgun primers pushed the bullet off the powder?

Internet shooters…lol. too many great targets have been shot at Friendship with shooters using 209 primers.
The new modules seem to only reduce blow by shot-after-shot to seal slightly better than a 209.

 

[ronlaughlin]

The 209A primers shot here actually sealed perfectly in Bestill' breech plug. The seal in the two plugs is the same -- perfect with zero blow by.

 

[toytruck]

I like the fact of the no blow back plugs, no doubt. I just can't see paying $80 for a breech plug that has to be fitted to each Omega. Now that I actually own one, I bought three TC original plugs for backup (one in the gun makes four) so I'm good for my life time. If they wear out I'll just have them drilled out for a vent liner insert.
Not sure what he means in regards to the bolt retaining pin on an Omega??

 

[ronlaughlin]

I just can't see paying $80 for a breech plug that has to be fitted to each Omega.

The thing about Omega rifles that is not true of others, is they all have virtually the same head space. This means one breech plug fits all Omega. The breech plug is fit to the primer of one's choice, then the plug and primer can be used in every Omega.

One breech plug here fits CCI primers, and 209A primers. The other breech plug here fits STS primers. Both can be used in every Omega.

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

Anyone ever converted a wall-hanger Baker Rifle into a shooter? I've got a wall-hanger, looking to get a decent barrel for it (any suggestions??) and make it a shooter. Thanks for your help and suggestions. FYI, it's an 1800 Model Baker.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Scott suggested some of the velocity increase of the Direct Ignition was due to the magnum rifle primer. This morning the speeds were checked using the same type of ignition, the same type of breech plug.

The plug on the left is an OEM plug with the primer socket enlarged so it can utilize a Variflame adapter and a magnum large rifle Federal 215 primer. The plug on the right is a Bestill plug using a 209A shotgun primer, the same as used in the OP. Both plugs have a 0.035" flash hole.

Rifle is the same as the OP. The bullet is the same as the OP. The wad is the same as the OP. Powder charge is the same as the OP. The clock is the same as the OP, placed a tad closer than it was in the OP.





Three shots through the clock using Bestill' plug, and 209A primer.

1328 fps
1322
1328

Average = 1326 fps




Five shots though the clock using the modified OEM plug, and Federal 215 large rifle magnum primer.

1330 fps
1330
1337
1316
1342

Average = 1331 fps

 

[toytruck]

To bring this back up, I assume Bestil is referring to the Savage and 700ml bolt retaining pin that can't handle direct ignition by design. There is no bolt in an Omega. What can't the Omega handle?

 

[billyboy*]

To bring this back up, I assume Bestil is referring to the Savage and 700ml bolt retaining pin that can't handle direct ignition by design. There is no bolt in an Omega. What can't the Omega handle?

Jeff Fisk is saying the TC Omega wasn’t Designed for Centerfire Pressures. An Example is that the TC Encore Frame can use a .300 Win Mag Barrel.

 

[toytruck]

Okay, makes sense!

 

[billyboy*]

Several modules were primed with Federal 215 magnum large rifle primers. Fit was perfect. This was impossible to do without putting a dab of oil on the inner rim of the module. A primed module was installed into the breech plug; the bottom threads of the plug wrapped with a single wrap of plumber's tape, and then installed into the 45 caliber Omega. Only 50 grain of Blackhorn was poured down the barrel of the rifle, and a vegetable fiber wad pushed down to the powder. The bullet is a 250g Deep Curl sized to 0.4505" slips easily down the barrel to the powder. Modules were replaced, and rifle was reloaded.

Six shots through the clock:

1498 fps
1522
1449
1521
1493
1463

Average = 1492 fps

The Direct Ignition plug was changed to a Bestill plug set up to work with CCI primers, and Federal 209A primers. Using the same load, except the primer was changed to the 209A, shots were clocked.

1303 fps
1305
1314

Average = 1307 fps


Shooting was done at 31°, which made fingers cold. Couldn't feel the wads, but none were dropped, and shooting was uneventful.

Ron do you think that Standard Large Pistol Primers would be a better option with the DI Module Screws with the .080” Flash Hole?

 

[ronlaughlin]

Am too ignorant to answer.

 

[ronlaughlin]

This morning a change was made to a CCI standard large rifle primer. Also the powder charge was increased to 80 grain Blackhorn.

First photo shows breech plug with no module, then module added in second photo.

Up in the hills it was lightly snowing @ 31° still was able to clock some shots. On one of the shots a wad hit the front of the instrument.

1851 fps
1893
1841
1885

average = 1867 fps




Rifle is the 45 caliber Omega. Powder is 80 grain Blackhorn. Vegetable fiber wad. Primer is CCI standard large rifle. Bullet is 250g Deep Curl. Breech plug is Direct ignition .




Then a target was set out at 77 yard. Because it was snowing and cold, the table wasn't set out; shooting was done from inside the pick up. Three shots at the bottom bull with one elbow on the arm rest the other in the steering wheel.

 

[toytruck]

Looks like you made a new target holder. I really like mine....

 

[45-70]

I can't see loading a muzzle loader that is already primed.!!!!!! Looks like accident waiting to happen, know a guy blew part of a finger

 

[GM54-120]

You can load them on a spent module. Aim the rifle DOWN and screw in a primed module. I thought one of the vendors offered just the bolt (module) that had not been machined. It was just a "dummy" module.

 

[billyboy*]

You can load them on a spent module. Aim the rifle DOWN and screw in a primed module. I thought one of the vendors offered just the bolt (module) that had not been machined. It was just a "dummy" module.


That is Correct, Hankins provides a “Travel” Module, so rifle is considered “Unloaded”.