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that's nice, Swampman. I'm glad you so freely share that faith. It means a lot to me.
Underclocked said:Millions upon millions were spent to build the factory where the Accura, Apex and Bergara barrels are built using some of the most modern methods available. The barrels have the blessing of not only Ed Shilen but of Mike Bellm - who has had nothing to do with CVA to my knowledge. Of course, neither of those guys know much about rifle barrels.
Underclocked said:that's nice, Swampman. I'm glad you so freely share that faith. It means a lot to me.
.Swampman,,,,you'd ***** if someone gave you a new rope to hang yourself with
Batchief909 said:So how do you feel now that Smith and Wesson owns Thompson Center?? 8)
I've known and have personally spoken with UC for a few years now. Nobody was more critical of CVA than Rich was back then,,,,and for good reasons. If he says the rifle is worthy of another look,,,then I believe him. He isn't getting paid squat for his evaluations,,,he's just a picky bastich like most of us,,and is willing to share his opinion. I trust his opinion. And folks need to sit back and take a deep breath. This new CVA just might be a good one. 8)
Swampman,,,,you'd ***** if someone gave you a new rope to hang yourself with. 8) :wink:
I've known and have personally spoken with UC for a few years now. Nobody was more critical of CVA than Rich was back then,,,,and for good reasons. If he says the rifle is worthy of another look,,,then I believe him. He isn't getting paid squat for his evaluations,,,he's just a picky bastich like most of us,,and is willing to share his opinion. I trust his opinion. And folks need to sit back and take a deep breath. This new CVA just might be a good one.
sabotloader said:Busta
Has anyone seen if CVA is going to budge off the 100 gr loose powder charge or the 400 gr max bullet charge with these new rifles? This APEX obviously has a steel frame to handle the center fire breech thrust of a .300 Win Mag. You would think these new muzzleloader barrels could handle a 120 gr charge of loose powder if they can recommend a 150 gr pellet charge. I know you can draw your own conclusion, but it would be nice if they had the ballz to put it in print. What is CVA's amximum loose powder recommendation for the new Bergara barreled .45's?
I really do not think they are going to move from these restrictions in the near future. The same restrictions apply if you purchase a Bergara barrel and drop it on you Encore.
As long as they maintain these restrictions and try to compete in the open market with any other modern ML they are hurting themselves. Plus their past history makes works against them also. I am sure their products today are of decent quality but combine the restrictions and past history there will always be some ghosts haunting BPI/CVA.
Busta said:The one thing I don't care for on these newer CVA rifles is the spring steel clip-on ramrod thimbles (guides). I'm sure they are perfectly servicable, but detract from the overall esthetic quality of the new breed of CVA's. I see they are offering it in a .45 cal, wonder if Bergara would offer a faster twist than 1:28 down the road for the Hot-Rodders?
Has anyone seen if CVA is going to budge off the 100 gr loose powder charge or the 400 gr max bullet charge with these new rifles? This APEX obviously has a steel frame to handle the center fire breech thrust of a .300 Win Mag. You would think these new muzzleloader barrels could handle a 120 gr charge of loose powder if they can recommend a 150 gr pellet charge. I know you can draw your own conclusion, but it would be nice if they had the ballz to put it in print. What is CVA's amximum loose powder recommendation for the new Bergara barreled .45's?
Asthetically, I think they are there. With some good thimbles, quick removable breech, and a higher max loose powder charge recommendation, I think they would have the perfect rifle. It also appears that there will be no open sight option, since the DuraSight? Z-2 AlloyTM rail mount is included.
This is an apples to apples comparison, as close as it can get for these three rifles. I know there is the Encore Pro-Hunter and Endeaver with more bells and whistles, but you are also talking $300 to $400 more per rifle.
MSRP $576.95 (should be about $100 less than MSRP from the right dealer)
MSRP $589.99 ($479.76 at R&R)
MSRP $730 to $750? (T/C does not list MSRP) ($626.08 at R&R)
http://www.cva.com./rifles-apexml.html
http://www.knightrifles.com/catalog.asp ... zleloaders
http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/encoreMuzzleloaders.php
Changing those load recommendations will neither improve nor decrease the quality of the rifles involved
but some might find assurance in revised numbers.
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