Barnes T ez ??

[Creekrunner]

So tonight I shot the 250 tez out of my pro hunter and they were as accurate as shooting my 250 grain ssts.

I've been shooting and killing deer with the ssts since they came out on the market. I've never had a problem or lost a single deer of the countless ones I've taken with an sst. The ranges I've shot deer at have varied between 5 to my furthest 160.

My question is has anyone shot deer at close range (50 yards or less) with the tez ? If so how do they preform? I'm concerned that the copper not open up and just pencil through using my 100 grains of bh. Not the hottest load but hot enough.

The basis of my concern is my dad shot a few deer with Remington copper solid slugs when I was a kid and the few deer that were recovered had entrance and exit holes that were the same diameter of an unexpanded bullet.

Thanks

 

[bestill]

Ive never seen a Barnes tez not open up.
And will leave a devastating wound channel

 

[03mossy]

I've shot more muzzleloader deer with the Barnes tmz than any other bullet from 10-140 yards. They've always done there job. I shoot the Barnes ttsx out of my rifles also with the same good results.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

We have shot the TEZ (250gr size) slow and fast at close range and performance has been excellent.

60gr BH209 at approx. 30yds broadside shot, round hole in, ragged hole out

70gr BH209 at approx. 100+yds broadside shot, round hole in, one pedal poking out hide
recovered bullet

Many deer taken close-in and out to 140yds with 110gr BH209, when processing them, I have never seen any evidence of no expansion.

Looks like the Remington copper solids went through some design changes because of what you described.

 

[Creekrunner]

This is all good info I think this weekend when I head to Ky I'll load it up with a Barnes and see what happens.

It's pretty cool I bought the Tez for my dad to try in his omega and when at the range after i checked my zero with the sst I started playing with these and everything thing is the same (point of impact and group size) between 2 bullets

 

[WV Hunter]

Both are good bullets. You do your job, dead deer with either. Good luck

 

[markbl]

I may be late chiming in here, but I just had an experience last night that goes counter to what everyone is saying about the TEZ. And I don't have as much experience with muzzleloading as some of the others here, but......

I recently switched to the TEZ from the Barnes MZ. I was really happy with the performance of the MZ, but I couldn't seem to find them this fall in the local stores and I needed to sight in a new scope. I could find the TEZ, so I figured I would switch and make that my new bullet, should maybe be more accurate, right? So I bought a bunch, sighted in, started hunting with them and got my first shot at a deer with them last night. 50 yards, 250gr TEZ, 100 gr BH.

I put the shot right where I was aiming, in the heart lung area. I like that spot because it's a bigger target, ruins less meat, they don't generally run too far, etc. He stumbled, but didn't go straight down, turned around and made a fast exit. So I climbed down and went looking for blood, cause I thought I made a pretty good shot and figured there would be a lot. I looked and looked, made circles, criss-crossed, got out my flashlight (as it was getting dark) and just as I was about to give up, I found the smallest trace of blood. So now I know I hit him and I figured the blood trail would open up as he moved along.

Long story short, it took me more than an hour to find him and he had only run a bit more than 50 yards. Very, very minimal blood trail, difficult to track, especially in the dark. When I did find him, the entrance hole was just where I wanted, and the exit hole was on the other side of the rib cage, very small, actually looked no larger than the entrance hole. (I will attach pictures, if someone can show me how). As I was field dressing him, I found the blue tip of the TEZ near the exit hole. The lungs were a mess, and a lot of blood inside the deer, but very little made it out of his body.

I know this is just one event and lots of things can happen in different situations, so your results may vary, but I believe the Barnes MZ would have opened up a lot better, because it has for me in similar situations in the past, and would have provided a better blood trail. The accuracy of the TEZ doesn’t seem any better than what I experienced with the MZ, at least inside 100 yards. Needless to say, I wasn’t happy with the TEZ last night, and I’m probably going to go back to the MZ at some point down the road. A bit cheaper too.

So one last question for those of you with more experience. When I do find some MZ’s and switch, do you think the POI will change significantly from the TEZ, given the same load and bullet weight? I’m guessing another range session is in store to be confident.

 

[bestill]

Blue tip was inside deer means some expansion happened.

Did you by chance just miss ribs in and out?
Was shot angle downhill or uphill?

 

[ronlaughlin]

markbl

Another option is the 245g Lehigh Controlled Fracturing bullet. Testing has shown it to always work as designed, whereas the Barnes have failed at times.

Another option is the 250g Hornady Monoflex bullet. It seems to be some more reliable than the Barnes.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

I believe if you pull the blue tips off, you have an MZ bullet, someone chime in if I'm way off :huh?:

 

[markbl]

Shot was slightly downhill, maybe 10' above the level of the deer, again about 50 yds, so almost level. I may have missed ribs both going in and coming out, I didn't look closely.

As far as pulling the blue tip off the TEZ, much easier said than done. I tried after you made the suggestion and couldn't get the entire tip out with my brute force methods, but enough to compare. The opening on the TEZ is a tad smaller, maybe 1mm, than the opening of the MZ as determined visually and by trying different size bits in the opening. To me it looks like there is a slightly different exterior contour as well.

At any rate, I think I'll be going back to the MZ's.

Thanks.

 

[Tonyencore]

The only time I've seen a Batnes not open up is when I have ticked a limb and got the bullet tumbling. If you found the tip, I would think that may be what happened. I've shot a lot of deer with Barnes and even more with SST's. I can say without hesitation, the Barnes TEZ is by far the best bullet I've ever used in deer. My daughter has taken deer with as little as 60 grains of pwder and they have never failed to give awesome blood trails.

 

[GM54-120]

IMO if you are going to use light loads with a TMZ or TEZ, you are better off using an Expander MZ or the XPB bullets used for reloading CFs. Avoid the XPBs made for 460S&W. They have a much smaller HP.

Why?.....because there is no benefit to using a tipped bullet with light loads. BC is nearly meaningless at those ranges and velocities. You may also save a $$$ or two using the XPB versions. The Expander MZs and XPBs range from 200gr-300gr in .451. The most overlooked one IMO is the little 225gr XPB made for 45LC. Awesome little bullet, especially for youth loads.

 

[sabotloader]

markbl

I would add that you are not the only person that have passed through the experience you describe with the pointed Barnes bullets especially at the closer ranges. Even decades ago I been told that on OCCASION a Barnes could/would do that. At that time I made the switch to Nosler Partitons and never looked back. they were absolutely what I was looking for.

And then a few years back I made another switch - to Lehigh line of bullets or even the Lehigh/Bloodlines.

The suggestion of the Lehigh .452x245 CF is an outstanding suggestion. The Theory of Operation of these bullets provides probably the most trusting Terminal Ballistics of any of the bullet on the market. Even with marginal or difficult shots.



Right after I got these bullets I went out to farm to shoot them. I was using a PacNorWest legal Knight U-Lite. The rifle has been sighted in with a 50x325 full bore conical - so I set the target at 50 yards and took a few shots. I was using open sights as required by Idaho

 

[chaded]

I guess I am a little bit baffled as to why the bullet wouldn't expand at close range? I can see if the discussion was centered around a long distance shot where the velocity might have dropped to a level where it won't expand. But close range where the velocity is going to be at its greatest? 100 grains of BH209 at 50 yards is more than enough to expand a barnes bullet. Here is the damage from a barnes 250 TEZ shot from 50 yards with 110 grains of BH209. This is the neck of a fairly small deer also so not a hole lot of flesh to travel through. Notice the blue tip. The bullet of course is still probably traveling but it certainly expanded. This is par for the course for myself and my family that uses them. I am trying the Hornady monoflex 250 grainers with the same load and see how they do in comparison.

 

[markbl]

Note that entry wound (bottom photo) almost looks as big as exit wound (top Photo). Again, 100gr BH, 50 yards, clear shot right where I wanted it; this was a medium size young buck, maybe 110 lbs dressed. I expected a bigger exit wound.

Thanks for the feedback, I might try the Lehighs if I can find them or will go back to the MZ's, but will probably finish out the season with these TEZ's We'll see how they do on other deer, (I hope).

 

[chaded]

Note that entry wound (bottom photo) almost looks as big as exit wound (top Photo). Again, 100gr BH, 50 yards, clear shot right where I wanted it; this was a medium size young buck, maybe 110 lbs dressed. I expected a bigger exit wound.

Thanks for the feedback, I might try the Lehighs if I can find them or will go back to the MZ's, but will probably finish out the season with these TEZ's We'll see how they do on other deer, (I hope).

I don't know how your going to get a bigger exit wound with the Lehigh's because the petals break off and all the goes through and exits is the base of the bullet?

 

[markbl]

I guess this is what I'm looking for in the performance of a bullet. This was a Barnes MZ I recovered from a deer a year or so ago. Obviously didn't pass through, but was a quartering shot, so had a lot more material to pass through. This bullet going out is what I'm hoping for.

 

[sabotloader]

Note that entry wound (bottom photo) almost looks as big as exit wound (top Photo). Again, 100gr BH, 50 yards, clear shot right where I wanted it; this was a medium size young buck, maybe 110 lbs dressed. I expected a bigger exit wound.

Thanks for the feedback, I might try the Lehighs if I can find them or will go back to the MZ's, but will probably finish out the season with these TEZ's We'll see how they do on other deer, (I hope).

I don't know how your going to get a bigger exit wound with the Lehigh's because the petals break off and all the goes through and exits is the base of the bullet?

You are correct the exit hole will not be larger - the difference will be what the bullet and the petals do in the vitals in the core of the animal. It appears that in this case the Barnes did not appear to expand correctly or not all.

The new Lehigh CF bullet is designed to work at a wider range of velocities.

The bullet is available from lehighdefense.com

 

[chaded]

Note that entry wound (bottom photo) almost looks as big as exit wound (top Photo). Again, 100gr BH, 50 yards, clear shot right where I wanted it; this was a medium size young buck, maybe 110 lbs dressed. I expected a bigger exit wound.

Thanks for the feedback, I might try the Lehighs if I can find them or will go back to the MZ's, but will probably finish out the season with these TEZ's We'll see how they do on other deer, (I hope).

I don't know how your going to get a bigger exit wound with the Lehigh's because the petals break off and all the goes through and exits is the base of the bullet?

You are correct the exit hole will not be larger - the difference will be what the bullet and the petals do in the vitals in the core of the animal. It appears that in this case the Barnes did not appear to expand correctly or not all.

The new Lehigh CF bullet is designed to work at a wider range of velocities.

The bullet is available from lehighdefense.com

It actually looks like it expanded to me. How big of a hole I cannot tell for sure. What we do know is he said the lungs "was a mess" and there was lots of blood inside. Doesn't sound like it just penciled through to me.