Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data

[KurtK]

Hi all,
I started using BH209 this year, I really love the stuff. However, I could never really get truly repeatable results by measuring by volume.
I have several different powder measures that I use and they are very close to each other when checked. I do reload for my cf rifles and have a RCBS Chargemaster scale. I like weighing my charges for consistency and for me it is easier to pump out alot charge tubes.

According to Western Powders, to weigh charges use a .7 factor to convert from volume. 100 grv = 70 grw.

My process was to measure, by volume, 20 charges for 90grv, 100grv, 110grv & 120grv, then weigh them on my Chargemaster.
I tabulated the results, disregarded the highest and lowest values and then averaged the results. My data indicated weighed charges
7 grains heavier than the BH209 data. Has anyone else experienced the same results?

What is interesting is when I extrapolate the data below for 10 grains by volume vs. by weight , it does match the data from Blackhorn for a value of 7 grains by weight to 10 grain by volume. It is just a little confusing as to why all the values are off by approximately +7 grains (by weight). Is this due to the fact that there is no industry standard for volume measures? The 3 measures i have are very close to each other, and I tried to be consistent in the method I used ensure all things would be equal. I basically would fill the measure and tap it 4 times until full, then move the cap to level it off, then weigh the charge. The scale was calibrated.

I did talk to Western Powders, they basically said that all black powder is measured by volume and they appreciated my approach, but as long as what every measure I used, 120 grv was to be considered max regardless to what it would weigh.

Here are my results;
Load Data From BH209 = My data
90 grv (63 grw) = 70 grw avg
100 grv (70 grw) = 77 grw avg
110 grv (77 grw) = 84 grw avg
120 grv (84 grw) = 91 grw avg

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[rangerod]

For a long time as a muzzleloader I always measured by volume. Then decided to measure by weight. I used a TC U-view powder measure set at 100 grns. It weighed 75 grns and should have been 70 grns ( no tamping). In hindsight I wish I would have done more testing. From that point forward I decided to measure strictly by weight. I can weigh up 20 charges before going to the range plus one charge in each gun (minus the primer). Weighing by volume for me at the range was just inconvenient. I also don't like to waste black horn. To expensive. Powder measures and charge tubes can be all over the place.

 

[a1smokepole]

this is what I have for weight. volume X .7 = Weight. sample 90grv X .7 = 63grw
90grv = 63grw
95grv = 66.5grw
100grv = 70.0grw
110grv = 77.0grw
120grv = 84.0grw
and using volume measure I was over and under on all loads that's way I weigh all may loads.

 

[KurtK]

I can weigh up 20 charges before going to the range plus one charge in each gun (minus the primer). Weighing by volume for me at the range was just inconvenient. I also don't like to waste black horn. To expensive. Powder measures and charge tubes can be all over the place.

Ditto

 

[HC]

I ran in to the same inconsistencies when changing from one jug to another jug of bh. I weigh every chargefrom now on. HC.

 

[Smyrnagc]

I have been weighing my BH loads since 2011 when I first visited this site and read big6x6's recommendation for BH weights (see Sticky post at top). I use 70 grains by weight which equals 100 grains by volume in all my MLs. When I checked the volume vs. weighted loads there was some inconsistency so I always weigh them out...sort of a pre-season ritual that I enjoy.

I make up half a dozen tubes prior to ML season with the sabot/bullet in the tubes. The consistency from weighing has kept my shots at under 2" from 100 yards and here in Tennessee where most of the shots I have are 50-75 yards it is all I need. I would highly recommend weighing out loads of BH209. A relatively inexpensive scale is all you need.

 

[Busta]

Check with a beam scale. They never lie to you. Back in April 2008 I checked all my volume measures with Blackhorn 209 and averaged a .69 multiplier. Never have averaged over a .7, so I would say your digital scales are off, your powder measures are throwing heavy, or your lot of powder is higher in density.

 

[emrah]

I had similar problems. I always weigh now.

Emrah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

I use the mound slightly, tap til powder flat method with my brass swivel top powder measure, it will throw within a grain of my weighed charges. I use Western's conversion factor, which for me, is spot-on.

 

[zymguy]

this has been an eye opener !

 

[Dr. Vette]

I always weigh with my Chargemaster also.

I found that the number of times I "tapped" the BH tube would affect the volume. It took only a matter of moments before I started weighing them and I've never looked back.

 

[SteveH]

Good thread!! Planning on getting out to the range this weekend, assuming what's left of Matthew does not ruin the weekend. I have a beam scale I never use that I brought off Ebay, just because. Think I will use it tonight an fill up a bunch of Lane's tubes. :yeah:

 

[cljohnson24]

this is what I have for weight. volume X .7 = Weight. sample 90grv X .7 = 63grw
90grv = 63grw
95grv = 66.5grw
100grv = 70.0grw
110grv = 77.0grw
120grv = 84.0grw
and using volume measure I was over and under on all loads that's way I weigh all may loads.

I too weigh all my charges with beam scale and trickler and use the .7 multiplier. My vertical consistency at long ranges was dramatically improved and this was reflected by the severe drop in ES/SD over my chrono. I will never go back to volume for long range loads, but I have a couple <100yd loaner and kid MZ's where I went back to 777 in Volume or pellets because it made no difference on the shots they take.
If you shoot long enough ranges, the consistency of weighing becomes critical, inside 100 yds...not so much.

 

[KurtK]

Wow,
I did not think there would be so many replies.
I decided to "reverse engineer" my process to check my measures.
I would weigh out charges following the data from the Blackhorn charts and then pour the charge into each of my measures and then
adjust the measures to when the swivel tops would just barely scrape the powder.

The measures I have are:
CVA Adjustable Powder Measure Ac1410 X6
Thompson Center U-View Black Powder Measure
T/C Hunter's Powder Measure

What I found was that the most accurate measure, according to the indicator marks, was the CVA.
With that measure it was within a couple of grains when compared to the mark. No significant difference whether at the top, middle, or bottom of the mark.

The TC hunter measure, the one I thought I would like the most, was the one that had the most error. I do like the sliding top vs. swivel, but it is
stiff to slide. Also, it is pretty compact. The inner measure tub is black plastic and the knurled nut is finicky. Sometimes the tube would slip even when the nut felt tight. It would yield up to 3 +_ grains errors. The indicator marks are rather wide. I would not recommend this one at all.

The U-View with the clear plastic is nice to see the load, but I felt it was difficult to see the markings. Must be my aging eyes. I was thinking of filling in the markings with white or red paint. I still had to keep adjusting it to tune to the charted loads.

After, all this I stay with my chargemaster. Much easier to be consistent. I can whip out as many charge tubes as I need, in the increments I want and most of all, no mess or waste. BH209 aint cheap.

What I have found with the BH209 charge tubes is, after filling the tubes with whatever charge, the appear to be off by 5-10 grains from the markings
on the tube. However, once the cap is on and giving the tube a quick shake, the powder level is really close to the tube graduations. The markings definitely do not account for the powder settling.

 

[Busta]

Blackhorn powder tubes have never been accurate for settled powder. Use them for storage, but never as powder measures. They weren't designed to measure. It's just to bad they weren't more accurate.

 

[tpcollins]

The scale was calibrated.

I did talk to Western Powders, they basically said that all black powder is measured by volume and they appreciated my approach, but as long as what every measure I used, 120 grv was to be considered max regardless to what it would weigh.

Here are my results;
Load Data From BH209 = My data
90 grv (63 grw) = 70 grw avg
100 grv (70 grw) = 77 grw avg
110 grv (77 grw) = 84 grw avg
120 grv (84 grw) = 91 grw avg

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

How was the scale calibrated?

I've been weighing my charges long before I started using BH209. I do find the .7 grain weight per 1 grain volume to work for me with BH209.

What I have found is my left over preloads weigh less than they did the year before. My only conclusion is that they dry out a bit over time.

 

[KurtK]

The scale was calibrated.

I did talk to Western Powders, they basically said that all black powder is measured by volume and they appreciated my approach, but as long as what every measure I used, 120 grv was to be considered max regardless to what it would weigh.

Here are my results;
Load Data From BH209 = My data
90 grv (63 grw) = 70 grw avg
100 grv (70 grw) = 77 grw avg
110 grv (77 grw) = 84 grw avg
120 grv (84 grw) = 91 grw avg

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

How was the scale calibrated?

I've been weighing my charges long before I started using BH209. I do find the .7 grain weight per 1 grain volume to work for me with BH209.

What I have found is my left over preloads weigh less than they did the year before. My only conclusion is that they dry out a bit over time.

I use the test weights and the calibration method for the chargemaster. After that I use other test weights to check and the scale has always been dead on.