CVA/BH209 ignition problem

[art sehnke]

Equipment: CVA Kodiak Magnum 50 Cal. 26" barrel
Win.209 Primers
300 Gr. Barnes Expandable MZ HP bullets
BH209 powder

Boy, did I have an experience yesterday evening. I have been shooting BH209 for a few weeks now & for the most part am very pleased with its performence. I went to shoot a few test bullets , using some Barnes (all copper) expandable MZ bullets that I have had for years and never tried. I have shot very good groups woth Powerbelt, Aero tip .245 gr. bullets , but because of so many negative comments on their terminal performance, I decided that these were not what I want to hunt deer here in Michigan with
I shot 4 of the Barnes MZ bullets & was pleased with the grouping and they loaded with a bit of reststance, but not that bad. I used 85 grs. of the BH209 with the 300 gr. Barnes projectiles

Then I shot 2 R.E.A.L. , 50. cal. 320 gr. bullets that I cast many years ago. These are what are referred to as"SLIP FIT" bullets with an Ox-Yoke wonder wad over the same 85. gr. BH209 load. The first 2 shot fine, but the 3rd attemt did not fire. The primer gave a soft"pop"!!!!! I got bit concerned. After 5 minutes, I pulled the breechplug and pushed the load out the front with my ramrod. The wool felt wad fell on the bench as did my powder charge. No bullet came out. I walked in fron of the bench and found the bullet on the ground about 6 feet in front of the bench.
I cleaned everything thouroghly and tried another shot.....SAME RESULT.
Removed breecplug and rammed the load out again. After cleaning again, I fired 3 Win.209 primers again and they fired nice and loud and sounded "hot"!!!! This should be OK now, eh??? This happened to me four(4) more times. Now I am really concerned.
I happened to have some triple se7en along & tried the same 85 gr. load & the R.E.A.L. cast bullets and it fired with no problem, although it did seem the recoil was a bit heavier, whacking the back of my left hand twice just behind the first knuckle. Incidently the first triple 7 shot went 6" high over the bull. The second went 6" low under the bull and the third did not print on the target. At least the powder ignited and did not cause a hangfire or misfire!!! These were all at 100 yards. I brought everything home and cleaned it very good.

Fastforward to today, Sunday afternoon. I got to thinking and dug out my spare replacement breechplug and inspected both side by side. I thought at first,"Boy, they make the new ones with a much larger aperture in ther primer end of the plug"!!!Then I remembered reading one of the threads on this forum site about some guys having difficulty with really hard caked carbon left on the breechplugs using BH209. They said they used a small drill(turning by hand to cleanthe hole. I tried this witha 3/32" drill bit and it worked. It was a slow tedious project, it took about 10 minutes, but it worked. Don't rush it. The aperture doubled in size. A lot of black carbon dust came out and NO METAL shavings, just all carbon residue. Now both breechplugs have the same sized rear holes. I haven't had a chance to to try it out , but I think it should solve the {BP209} ignition problem. I am going back to some of those forums and re-read them to see what they say. I know I read it more than once. I should have tried the hole boring job yesterday , after I soaked the plug in Hoppe's #9 copper solvent. I hope this works because I don't want to give up using BH209. I probably have fired at least 40 rounds with it so far. Aldo the Breechplug probably contained some of the soot from the Triple seven that I shot last fall.

Has anything like this happened to anyone else out there.
Redbird in Michigan[/img]

 

[cayuga]

A very interesting post. I have yet to get my hands on the new powder. I have read posts about this carbon effect also. I am wondering if my rifles would even shoot the powder.

 

[bowbender6]

If the bullet is real loose, BH209 is hard to ignite (almost like the smokeless powders in the Savage but not a s bad) . I have had no problems with the breech hole, but I measure mine ? they run between .030-.040. With smokeless powder (which BH209 acts like somewhat) you have to drill the breech plug but the vent hole usually is about .030 and gets bigger after 50- 200 rounds depending on the load. When the hole accuracy goes then vent hole has gotten to large. IMO the problem is the loose fit, but I will keep checking my plug hole when using BH209.

 

[art sehnke]

Bowbender 6 you hit the nail on the head. I went across the road to our range and I wanted to see if I had solved the problem by refurbishing the breechplug. I also wanted to test a few bullets terminal properties. I started with the Barnes MZ .300 gr. over 85 grs BH209. I shot at 4 phone books with a 2007 Cabelas master catalog taped behind them. That catalog has a thick book cover on it. The Barnes bullet blasted right thru it.
No ignition problem @nd bullet was 245 gr Powerbelt HP. the bullet went thru all books but lay on the ground right behind the backer and when weighed it weighed 232 grs,
The last bullet was a self cast 320 Gr. R.E.A.L. bullet and also penetrated all books. It lay eright behind the ytarget & retained 262 grains. No Ignition problems.
The I attempted to fire another of these cast bullets and it fizzled out of the barrel. That is the problem. Loose fit & gases are escaping past the bullet, even tho it is backed by a wool felt wad between the bullet & the powder. I cleaned things up & loaded 4 more powerbelts and fired with no prpblem. It has to be the cast slip fit projectiles, This gun & powder don't like them conicals!!! At least not these particular ones. I think I have found the problem.. Thank you fellas for the comments.
Redbird

 

[wayles]

breech plug

Art
TC and Knight have 1/8 inch holes in the rear. 1/8 drill bit gets it all out. A torch tip cleaner of about .030 will clean the front hole just fine. Don't know what size your gun is.
Wayles

 

[frontier gander]

I started with the Barnes MZ .300 gr. over 85 grs BH209. I shot at 4 phone books with a 2007 Cabelas master catalog taped behind them. That catalog has a thick book cover on it. The Barnes bullet blasted right thru it.
No ignition problem @nd bullet was 245 gr Powerbelt HP. the bullet went thru all books but lay on the ground right behind the backer and when weighed it weighed 232 grs,


You'll be fine with the 245g with that powder charge. All of the horror stories are the guys shooting magnum loads at shot ranges. I used the 245g AT some years ago with a mag load but the distance to the deer was a few yards shy of 150 yrds and the bullet dropped the doe in her tracks.

You may want to try the Aerotip as it helps control the bullets expansion and they do shoot tighter groups. At least in my rifles anyway.

 

[big6x6]

It has to be the cast slip fit projectiles

RIGHT. I have previously tried "slip fit" No Excuses in a Knight Disc Elite that had ZERO ignition problems with several different sabots. Nothing more than a fizzle. Tight bullet/bore fit is a must for guaranteed 100% ignition.