Going Smokeless with the SMI

[Johnny Deer Man]

I spoke to Dan at Smokeless Muzzleloading yesterday and decided to go with an SMI. He spent about an hour on the phone with me answering all my questions. I ask a lot of questions.

Anyway I looked at this board and other posting on the web about SMI muzzleloaders and found nothing but good comments. So I went out today and picked up a used Pardner Shotgun and I'm shipping it out tomorrow to Dan to build my new SMI.

I'm going to send my poorly shooting 45 cal disc extreme back to knight and after they are convinced that it doesn't shoot (and it doesn't!) they said that they can replace the barrel with a 50 cal. I'll keep it as a back-up. I'd sell it, but I don't think I would get enough to be worth it.

Anyway, if anyone want to share recipes for loads for this new baby I'd be most grateful.

Also, I was going to replace the wood stock (yikes, no recoil pad!) with the synthetic monte carlo SMI offers. If anyone has any other suggestions, please offer them. The stock is one of my primary concerns.

Thanks to everyone on this board for there input.

 

[Johnny Deer Man]

Also, Dan said he uses a .458 bullet instead of .452. Have any of you used this bullet size in a .50 SMI or other ML.

Thanks

 

[SW]

Most accurate load: 300SST,70-75g AA2015,HPH12,WW,Win209,(1 pass with slightly moistened patch-Rem ML cleaner followed by 1 pass with dry patch each shot), 2335'/sec @ 10 yds sub-MOA(with 70g). All the same except MMP 458(orange sabots), 458 Barnes 300 X FB(Barnes #45802), appx MOA.
I'd get the Monte Carlo stock from SMI and put Benelli recoil reducer(s) in the stock as well as a Simms Pad(don't know about size for that stock).

 

[Johnny Deer Man]

Wow, I didn't realize you swabed between shots. I though that was one of the major benefits of smokeless ML.

 

[Grouse]

Wow, I didn't realize you swabed between shots. I though that was one of the major benefits of smokeless ML.

You dont need to swab between shots with the Savage. 8) Atleast with Savage reccomended powders. The powders SMI reccomends arent reccomended by Savage.

 

[Johnny Deer Man]

Yes, but either way smokeless is smokeless. Why would I swab with SMI but not Savage?

 

[Grouse]

Yes, but either way smokeless is smokeless. Why would I swab with SMI but not Savage?

That question is for SW. There are alot of Savage shooters on this board not swabbing between shots. I even tried that once, and saw no benefit at all with the Savage.

 

[Tar-12]

Yes, but either way smokeless is smokeless. Why would I swab with SMI but not Savage?

That question is for SW. There are alot of Savage shooters on this board not swabbing between shots. I even tried that once, and saw no benefit at all with the Savage.

Same results here, no gains.Totaly unecessary in the Sav.

 

[Underclocked]

Those look like Choate stocks at SMI.

http://www.choatemachinetool.com/

http://www.riflestock.com/catalog_page_ ... uctCode=33

 

[IndianaHunter]

Wow, I didn't realize you swabed between shots. I though that was one of the major benefits of smokeless ML.

I run a patch down every few shoots while working up a load... Nothing major or time consuming... it really is all in your level of comfort and being consistent. You?ll find that level as well? See many of us look to touch holes at 100 yards, 1? groups get pretty common?.ie?my avatar to the left of this post? If you just want to shoot a 1 ? or 2? group to hunt then just load it, fire it, and clean it in January? In any case the gun will tell you when it needs a good cleaning?

 

[SW]

Wow, I didn't realize you swabed between shots. I though that was one of the major benefits of smokeless ML.

The benefits of swabing the barrel depend on the degree of fouling that occurs. Factors include roughness of barrel, type of powder, humidity/temp, and surely others. I've found VV powders and 2015 to leave the least residue. I keep the barrel very lightly fouled. The very light cleaning between shots keeps a consistently light fouled barrel. I chronograph every shot, record std devs and find this method has the greatest consistency in my Savages(I've just carried over this practice to the SMI) for the loads I shoot. Certainly many shots can be fired successfully w/o cleaning at all. I'm trying to keep the barrel as consistent as possible. ANY barrel fouls with each additional shot(in this context).

 

[Mountain Man]

Yes, but either way smokeless is smokeless. Why would I swab with SMI but not Savage?

Why would anybody not swab? I've never been able to figure out why people dislike swabbing. :? In all but truly cold weather, you've got to wait for your barrel to cool anyway, so what else are you going to do for those 5, 10, or 15 minutes?

After each shot, I wrap one patch dampened with Butch's Bore Shine around my brass brush, swab back and forth to the bottom and back out, turn it over, and repeat. Then do the same with a dry patch, then run one side of a second drypatch straight to the bottom and back (after the next shot, I apply solvent to that second dry patch since it is pretty much totally clean).

I can keep my gun clean (unfouled) between hunts or range sessions without suffering from first-shot POI shift. And it's easier to load my very tight bore.

Benefits:

#1, at the end of the day, the ONLY thing I have to do is run a LIGHTLY oiled patch down the barrel and then use it to wipe exterior metal. 60 seconds later, it goes in the hard case.

#2, No first-shot POI shift.

#3, Exactly the same barrel conditions shot-to-shot. The barrel does not get progressively more fouled the longer I shoot, as it would if I didn't swab at all.

#4, it's much easier to load my very tight, rather rough stainless barrel.

Consistency is the name of the game, and 60 seconds to swab the barrel a few times between shots means I'll never wonder, "Did this group open up now, after three hours of shooting, because my barrel is more fouled than it was earlier, or because I'm tired and not shooting well?" There are enough other variables to play with without adding changing levels of fouling to the mix.

 

[jims]

I do not swab anymore. I found it just took time, more equipment and did not help my Savage in accuracy but to each his own. I did not find it helped me, but then again it did not hurt me other than another step involved.

 

[Johnny Deer Man]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the input.

I'm not knocking swabing between shots, I only saying that this smokeless powder and I do not clean my centerfire after every shot, so why the muzzleloader?

I not advocating shooting hundreds of rounds without cleaning. I clean my centerfire every 40 rounds or end of season, whichever comes first. Why would this not hold true for a smokeless ML? Also, the rifles shoot better after a couple fouling shots anyway.

 

[dwhunter]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the input.

I'm not knocking swabing between shots, I only saying that this smokeless powder and I do not clean my centerfire after every shot, so why the muzzleloader?

I not advocating shooting hundreds of rounds without cleaning. I clean my centerfire every 40 rounds or end of season, whichever comes first. Why would this not hold true for a smokeless ML? Also, the rifles shoot better after a couple fouling shots anyway.

That is EXACTLY right. If it don't help accuracy what's the point? The only thing I might do is dry swab after 10-12 shots. :wink:

 

[getonit]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the input.

I'm not knocking swabing between shots, I only saying that this smokeless powder and I do not clean my centerfire after every shot, so why the muzzleloader?

I not advocating shooting hundreds of rounds without cleaning. I clean my centerfire every 40 rounds or end of season, whichever comes first. Why would this not hold true for a smokeless ML? Also, the rifles shoot better after a couple fouling shots anyway.

That is EXACTLY right. If it don't help accuracy what's the point? The only thing I might do is dry swab after 10-12 shots. :wink:

Thats the way I feel- but I'm sure some guns do shoot or load better after a quick pass- mine doesn't seem to be one of them though- with the smokeless powder the barrel fowling stays at a minimum- no real difference from the 2nd shot to the 8th- part of the reason I love the Savage! Rick