I need a new smokepole!!

[chwebmaker]

For the last 25 years all of my muzzle loaders have been Knights. MK85's, wolverines, Disc Extremes, and the latest was a KP1. I bought the KP1 when it first came out and even though it had a lot of issues, I had confidence in it and took down many deer up to 187 yards. However, this year I had so many different issues with the firing pin and trigger group assembly that I reluctantly have to get a new muzzle loader. $ is not an issue. I want a solid ML that can shoot accurately to 200 yards for deer hunting. I've done at least 15 hours of research on the best muzzle loaders available today and I think I've narrowed down my decision to either a CVA Accura PR or a Knight UltraLight. The KP1 weighed 8 lbs which is on the heavy side for a ML. I did look at some of the TC's. Nothing against them, I picked up a TC Triumph BC at Cabelas and thought it was a nice ML. SInce the only ML's I've owned have been Knights, of course I looked at the current Knight line. I understand that knight is not the same company as it was in past years when CS was top notch and so were their products. As we all know, reading through reviews can leave your head spinning with all the negative stories that are out there. I find myself agonizing over whether I should by a CVA Accura, a Knight UL or a TC or something else. I had no issues lugging around an 8 lb KP1 (not including weight of scope etc.) but I do prefer a Remington mountain rifle for my centerfire choice. So that's why I am looking at the Knight UL instead of the Mountaineer. However, I handled the CVA Accura PR today and it is a fine ML. The CVA's, TC's and Traditions all seem to much easier to clean and have ridiculously easy to remove breach plugs. The Knight is about 2X the price of the CVA Accura. If price was not a factor, which ML should I get? I appreciate your comments.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

CVA has come a long way but they are still no where near the quality of a Knight . However if $ isn’t an object , for a few hundred more than an ultralight you can get Bestill to make you a custom muzzleloader. Top notch work and no problem to hunt out to 500 yards if you are good enough behind the trigger . Remington platform or Omega platform . Then you have a personalized gun that will outperform anything you ever owned and it will probably be the last gun you will ever need .

 

[Lee 9]

I HAVE HADA LOT OF MUZZLELOADERS IN THE LAST 55 YEARS.
#1 I would look real hard at the complaints about CS.
#2 I would consider a custom gun if I did not build my own; strength is added safety there are people on here that do superb work
#3 I have never found any in the box gun to be perfect an Endeavor with a spring kit and a +1 or 2 as needed comes closest.
My opinion for what its worth to you.

 

[sabotloader]

For the last 25 years all of my muzzle loaders have been Knights. MK85's, wolverines, Disc Extremes, and the latest was a KP1. I bought the KP1 when it first came out and even though it had a lot of issues, I had confidence in it and took down many deer up to 187 yards. However, this year I had so many different issues with the firing pin and trigger group assembly that I reluctantly have to get a new muzzle loader. $ is not an issue. I want a solid ML that can shoot accurately to 200 yards for deer hunting. I've done at least 15 hours of research on the best muzzle loaders available today and I think I've narrowed down my decision to either a CVA Accura PR or a Knight UltraLight. The KP1 weighed 8 lbs which is on the heavy side for a ML. I did look at some of the TC's. Nothing against them, I picked up a TC Triumph BC at Cabelas and thought it was a nice ML. SInce the only ML's I've owned have been Knights, of course I looked at the current Knight line. I understand that knight is not the same company as it was in past years when CS was top notch and so were their products. As we all know, reading through reviews can leave your head spinning with all the negative stories that are out there. I find myself agonizing over whether I should by a CVA Accura, a Knight UL or a TC or something else. I had no issues lugging around an 8 lb KP1 (not including weight of scope etc.) but I do prefer a Remington mountain rifle for my centerfire choice. So that's why I am looking at the Knight UL instead of the Mountaineer. However, I handled the CVA Accura PR today and it is a fine ML. The CVA's, TC's and Traditions all seem to much easier to clean and have ridiculously easy to remove breach plugs. The Knight is about 2X the price of the CVA Accura. If price was not a factor, which ML should I get? I appreciate your comments.

There is a big world out there when it comes to the choice of a new ML... I am totally biased and you should know that right off the top. But, the Ultra-Lite is in a different class 6 or 6.3 lbs depending on which one you get. Light weight Kevlar stock with an aluminum bedded block for the receiver and a floating barrel. 200+ yards is not an obstacle with the U-Lite.

Cleaning the ULite is really not that bad - especially if you use a bare primer and the headspace is corrected which is really a simple issue to resolve. Knight will even do it for you if they know the primer you will use. Jeff BESTILL creations can also build you an after market plug that is really good!

This shows the internal aluminum bedding block in the Kevlar stock

Accuracy - this rifle can do that! 200 yard target shooting BH-209 and 250 grain Bloodlines

Bore cleaning is a real snap - since Knight is now using Dyna Tek Ceramic Bore coating in the bore... this shows my bore cleaning method...

Cleaning the breech plug and BP chamber in the bore is certainly not as easy as cleaning a Break Open - but it really is not a chore either.

Speaking of Breech Plug the factory plug is totally BH compatible and there is no reason to use a Mag shotgun primer to ignite BH-209.

With the proper head space - your primers will come out clean and the breech will stay clean...

Since you brought is up - Customer Service - it is really not like the old days BUT... there is a new guy heading up that department (Justin) and he really does work for the department, he has stepped up the department a lot.

Really hope some of this information helps you. Course I really hope it helps you make the ULite your choice... Also I really think the ULite is the MK-85 in this decade.

 

[Busta]

CVA Accura MR or PR Nitride over any Knight or TC being made today.

"It's Just A Better Gun!" For several reasons.

Knight can't even figure out how to headspace a breech plug anymore. Worst Customer Service in the industry. Way overpriced, for what you get.

I could have bought a new Knight around Veterans Day for 40% off, still more than they are worth today, IMO.

I own more Knight Muzzleloaders (5, after selling 3), than any other brand. So I'm not just bashing Knight here, I'm a realist. Still own 3 H&R/NEF, 3 Whites, 2 CVA's, 1 T/C, and 1 H&R .45-70 custom conversion.

The Bergara barrels are outstanding and shoot outstanding groups. CVA is leading the pack with the Nitrided stainless steel. The others are being left in the dust.

It's not just in the muzzleloader arena either, as they make some extremely accurate center fires as well. I had never even hunted big game with a center fire rifle, and not getting any younger, had this one on my bucket list. All my big game hunting, until this year was either with a bow, slug gun, pistol, or Muzzleloader. I purchased a stainless steel .45 caliber 1:24 twist Scout V2 chambered in .450 Bushmaster. This rifle shoots outstanding groups with Factory Hornady Black 250 grain FTX at just under 2300 FPS. On the morning of November 15th, I was able to check that one off my Bucket List. DRT!

I mention this to point out the fact that CVA has been eating Knight's as well as T/C's lunch for the last several years. Their are several that remain in denial, but that doesn't change the facts. CVA is here to play hardball, and they are hitting several home runs, and even a few grand slams. Better hold on tight to your lunch!

 

[Smyrnagc]

Here's a good deal on an Accura if he will ship it:

http://www.tndeer.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 2&t=354668

 

[dbowling]

heres a few not sure this is what your looking for...
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/c ... 21snm.html

http://www.cabelas.com/product/CVA-ACCU ... 784407.uts

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/17637 ... -with-dead

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/pro ... SS+ISM+BLK

 

[ENCORE50A]

Maybe look at something different and look over the Remington Ultimate and if money isn't a problem, look over the Ultimate Firearms BP Xpress. Both .50cals. Yup, they're heavier, but for a .50cal shooting a bullet in a sabot, the BP Xpress will send any other sabot shooting rifle running, especially at long range.
It all depends on what a guy wants and what he wants to spend. For the best accuracy, the fast twist .45's using land riding bullets just can't be beat and regardless of the manufacturer, a saboted bullet will not compete with land riding bullets. A very good reason for some to have a Bestill Creations build, or even a Hankins conversion. Boys and our toys

 

[Cattledog]

If money is not an issue. Ultralight all day long.

I have both an Accura MR and an Ultralight. The Ultralight is a better muzzleloader, barrel crown, trigger and stock are way above the Accrua. They are just at different price point, spend more and you get more in this case. On the Ultralight, have the bare primer breach plug checked for head space and shoot the heck out of it.

Looking forward to hearing you final purchase.

 

[Travis299]

What Busta said about CVA "It's just a BETTER gun".

I have no knowledge of the Knight BP rifles. The CVA Accura MR or V2 with the Bergara barrel is extremely accurate and the Nitride finish makes a very durable and easy to maintain rifle. We use the rubber O-Ring in the primer pocket which allows any primer that we use to come out squeaky clean after firing. Some folks on this forum don't care for the O-Ring but we have found that it eliminates any fouling of the firing pin assembly and you get 15/30 shots with an O ring. We also like the fact that the breech plug can be removed by hand and the rifle is easy to clean. One of my sons uses BH209 in his MR and my other son & I use 2 pellets of T7. We have no complaints with these CVAs after 3 years of use. My grandson took his 1st deer on 11/16/2017 with my CVA V2 and he was very excited and thrilled as was his grandpa!!

 

[WildTurkey]

I would suggest you branch out from Knight and give the CVA a go. I am loving my Accura MR. It is crazy accurate. Cleans up easy. Goes bang everytime I pull the trigger. The gun to go with IMO.

 

[sabinajiles]

I have no experience with the Knight Ultralight but I did own a Mountaineer for a while. It was an excellent rifle but I didn't like the weight and length of it so I sold it. The shorter, lighter Ultralight looks very appealing and appears to be an excellent rifle. I don't think you would be unhappy with one. I was considering one myself but decided to go the custom route next year.

I now own an Accura V2 and MR. The MR is easily my favorite. It's light, well balanced and a great handling rifle. Neither of the Accuras are picky on loads and will shoot a variety of bullets very well. With the right load, accuracy is excellent. The CVAs also normally have head space issues and suffer from blow back around the primer but that is easily remedied by shimming the firing pin bushing for your specific primer. I really like the nitride finish offered by CVA and think it has the edge over Knight's DynaTek coating. If you do decide on a CVA, I, personally, would not go with a package that has the Konus scope. I'm not a fan and think there are much better scopes available.

 

[Okie Hog]

Buy a nice Knight and don't look back.

 

[chwebmaker]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions. I can also understand the different point of views. The CVA Accura feels like a nice gun and given the positive feedback I've seen on reviews I'm sure it is a nice BP rifle. The Knight Ultralight is a beauty and I can imagine being very happy with one. It's a shame none of the stores carry them for me to look it over in person. Yes they are pricey and I would have to buy extra stuff for it because I feel that their position in the industry is fragile. I'm also considering the custom route. My son and my daughter have taken over my MK85's so I'm considering buying two BP rifles and keeping one as a backup. The Accura would be an excellent backup. The Knight UL with some modifications would be my preferred primary BPR. I love the green stock, what a beautiful weapon! Thanks for the write up sabotloader. I'm going to contact Jeff in early December about his custom work after he gets out of the woods. I'll let everyone know which choices I end up making.

 

[52Bore]

chwebmaker
From witnessing the types of in-lines that have appeared at Friendship - Knight has the lead by a large margin over the other mass produced in-lines.. They even keep pace with the best customs.

 

[Squeeze]

Its like asking whats your favorite beer? What kind of hunting do you normally do? In simple terms, a lot could be said for "how much is weight an issue", or "how long are your typical hunting ranges"

 

[52Bore]

cbwebmaker:
I should have added, if you wish to buy 2 - I'd be sure one was a 45 1:20.

 

[ENCORE50A]

chwebmaker
From witnessing the types of in-lines that have appeared at Friendship - Knight has the lead by a large margin over the other mass produced in-lines.. They even keep pace with the best customs.

I believe those Knights were all .45cal. and not .50cal.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

If your after the most accurate manufactured rifle made today .Knight wins hands down . Im not trying to sound arrogant im trying to state the true facts . I have targets i can show you from 50 yards to 500 yards. I take my competition very seriously . If there was a more accurate manufactured muzzleloader out there I would be shooting it .

.
That's not saying there are other manufactured muzzleloaders out there that will shoot 200 yards . There are but the most accurate is definitely Knight .

 

[Busta]

I would agree, if we were only talking about fast twist .45 calibers shooting land rider bullets in general. If we are talking about shooting saboted bullets in a .50 cal or the. 45 cals, not so much.

I have 1 Knight shotgun and 4 Knight rifles left. Original MK-85 .50 cal 1:28, Disc Ext MHC .50 cal 1:28, Disc Elite .45 cal 1:30, and a D.I.S.C .45 cal 1:20.

My Bergara barrels are consistently more accurate at normal hunting ranges for me, shooting saboted bullets.

If CVA made a fast twist .45 caliber muzzleloader today from Bergara, I guarantee you would be seeing more of them in competition.

I bought a CVA Scout V2 .45 Cal with a 1:24 twist chambered in .450 Bushmaster. This rifle shoots outstanding groups with factory loads right out of the box. They just need to bring back a .45 cal muzzleloader with a fast twist Bergara barrel.


These barrels can shoot. Would really like to see what someone like you could do with them , Doug.






My CVA Optima Pistol will consistently outshoot all but one of my Knight Rifles shooting sabots at 50 yards. That's a fact!