I need a new smokepole!!

[ENCORE50A]

I would agree, if we were only talking about fast twist .45 calibers shooting land rider bullets in general. If we are talking about shooting saboted bullets in a .50 cal or the. 45 cals, not so much.......

Have to agree with Busta on this part.

Knight does make a great and accurate rifle, but....

All the Knights that have top scores, at least since 2015, have all been 45cal rifles, all with fast twist barrels. Most of these 45's are custom rifles, with others having possible enhancements. The top rifles are shooting land riding bullets without question. Some shooting paper patched are close. Knight still does not list a fast twist rifle on its web page, short of the Knight 500, which is a custom build.

It was back in 2014 that the 50cal rifles dominated. The information indicates that only 4 of 20 shooters used a 45cal Knight rifle, those Knights were also fast twist custom rifles. A 50cal rifle actually won the overall.

Hunters... in general... are not interested in 45cal rifles with fast twists and shooting land riding, or paper patched bullets. Hunters are using 50cal rifles and with the highest percentage using sabots. The true seperation of rifles might just be rather one is shooting a land riding bullet or a saboted bullet, not rather its a 45 or 50, or what it looks like.

Not meaning to start a huge debate, but if the majority of hunters are shooting 50cal rifles, using saboted bullets, there certainly are other muzzleloaders that will shoot with any 50cal Knight rifle using sabots.

 

[long shot]

I believe two Knight rifles won the Nationals . Both were production Rifles . One a Mountaineer and second was an old Knight Disc. This was in September of 2017. We aren't talking custom.

 

[Busta]

We're they bedded, or straight out of the box? Bolt/breech plug mods? Crown worked, lapped? Pillars? Stock triggers?

Let's make it real!

 

[ENCORE50A]

I believe two Knight rifles won the Nationals . Both were production Rifles . One a Mountaineer and second was an old Knight Disc. This was in September of 2017. We aren't talking custom.

As most of that information isn't available, or published, such as the 2014 - 2017 match shooting is, with results posted on this site, I'd bet a coke that both of those Knight rifles you're mentioning were 45cal rifles with fast twist barrels, one at minimum, shooting land riding bullets, the other probably PP. The 45cal 1:20 Mountaineer, if that's what it was, doesn't show up on the Knight web site? It appears to be a "special order" only by calling Knight?

At issue isn't rather its a custom by any individual's definition, its rather its a rifle preferred by hunters. Take rifles that are all shot using sabots and things start to equal out. Rifles shooting saboted bullets won't compete with land riding bullets. Its quite obvious by previous postings and results. Most hunters are also using 50cal rifles with sabots and not 45's with fast twist barrels and land riding bullets.

Take for a great example: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30936&p=246105#p246105 posted by 52bore. Hunters using 50cal rifles and sabots have a distinct disadvantage over 45cal fast twist rifles shooting land riding bullets. That's where the difference should be made. One group shoots sabots, the other land riding bullets. But I believe the OP was more or less talking a hunting rifle and not a competition rifle?

 

[Smyrnagc]

Yes..."But I believe the OP was more or less talking a hunting rifle and not a competition rifle?", so let's not stray off on competition and stay focused on hunting rifles please.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

The Knight Mountaineer I shot in the spring of 2017 and at the fall Nationals at Friendship was completely stock other than a Bestll creations breech plug . I did not lap the barrel or bed . I never even free floated the barrel . These fast twist .45s that Knight sells are extremely accurate completely stock even with the stock breech plug . I just got tired of changing plugs with the amount of shooting I do . I wanted a plug with a removable bushing.

As far as 50 cals I really can't say . I have not shot my 50s as seriously as I have my .45s . If I get some time I would love to take several 50 cals and see how they compare also I'd like to see how far I can stretch out a 1-28 twist 50 . I am very impressed with CVAs barrels . Guys are taking a CVA 45/70 Scout or Hunter with a 1-20 twist barrel and putting a breech plug in them to make a fast twist muzzleloader. They shoot extremely well . There is no doubt CVA has came a long way and doing some amazing things . Last night I was doing some research to see if CVA made a AccuraV2 LR in a .45 it appears they do not . They did make a Accura Magnum in a .45 with a Bergarra barrel at some point of time but I don't think there is one being made at the present time .

Like I said earlier CVA is no joke they make a accurate rifle. But I still say if your after the most accurate long range manufactured muzzleloader at the present time Knights 1-20 45s win . With land riding bullets . When it comes to 50 cals and sabots I really can't say . There several muzzleloaders out there that can shoot 200 yards no problem with the correct load and bullet combination . BUT ! ! ! You still need to really know your rifle and PRACTISE to pull off a 200 yard shot with any rifle ! Just because the rifle can shoot that far does not mean a Hunter should take a shot at that distance . 200 yards is still a very long hunting shot . This is just one hunters opionion I'm sure others will be different . Good luck with what ever rifle you choose !

 

[Kraig]

I’d have to disagree about Knight having bad CS, and have to agree 100% with SabotLoader about Justin. I’ve emailed Knight and got quick responses every time and Justin has worked with me a couple times on some issues I’ve had, and made it a priority to call me and resolve the issues. And also offered to pay to have my gun sent in and to make sure the issues were resolved.

I don’t have a real valuable opinion on any of this, but from my personal experience my CVA I just sold wouldn’t hold a candle to the Knight Mountaineer I have now.

Good luck with your purchase. I think whatever u buy it would be hard to go wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sabotloader]

I am certainly not the paper shooter that others here are, and not to mention at 73 years old my best shooting day have already passed. This target is good indication of what a Mountaineer (ULite) can do with a hunting load - not a load designed to get the best accuracy. The load and the bullet were selected for elk hunting - with zero thought of paper accuracy. I should also say this was shot with a nearly new rifle - today it actually shoots better.

As much as I would like to blame shot#5 on the rifle u-all know it was not the rifle's problem - it was my mind working over time trying really hard to get this shot in the group.

So I really do not think you can not complain a whole lot about the accuracy of the Knight 50 cal.

 

[Cattledog]

Thanks for the load data on the ultralight.

 

[sabotloader]

Thanks for the load data on the ultralight.

Here is the Ballistics Sheet for that load

And if you use BH this sheet is what you might want

 

[WV Hunter]

If I was buying one new rifle and money didn't matter, it would be a Knight UL... hands down. Just a fantastic rifle that fits my hunting style very well. :yeah: If/when they finally start making a fast twist UL... it probably couldn't get much better than that.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

I'm very good friends with Mark Miller (a Knight dealer) he does some amazing things with the 1-30 twist guns . I honestly don't think you are giving much up at all in the form of accuracy until beyond 200 yards . The slower twist Knights will also shoot very well .

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Nice shooting Sabot . As always very helpful info for everyone . Thank you for the time you put in testing loads ,bullets ,calibers ect... I very much enjoy your post and appreciate the time you put in .

Thanks Doug

 

[Lee 9]

Some people are to interested in pushing what they like. All the rifles mentioned could be tuned up to fine accuracy , usually with a normal level of mechanical skill. One of the most important things is how the rifle fits the shooter, and if the rifle involved is to be used for hunting or target. a minute of deer is a lot different than punching out the X ring at 200 yards. The lop the weight of the gun and the shape of the stock can be and usually are very important to a hunter who needs to react fast and accurately.

 

[sabotloader]

Some people are to interested in pushing what they like. All the rifles mentioned could be tuned up to fine accuracy , usually with a normal level of mechanical skill. One of the most important things is how the rifle fits the shooter, and if the rifle involved is to be used for hunting or target. a minute of deer is a lot different than punching out the X ring at 200 yards. The lop the weight of the gun and the shape of the stock can be and usually are very important to a hunter who needs to react fast and accurately.

Lee, I said I was totally biased

But still the truth be known these 'gol' darn Knights shoot! and shoot well - for a hunter!

And your points are on point!

 

[WV Hunter]

I'm very good friends with Mark Miller (a Knight dealer) he does some amazing things with the 1-30 twist guns . I honestly don't think you are giving much up at all in the form of accuracy until beyond 200 yards . The slower twist Knights will also shoot very well .

Oh I agree!! My .45 Elite (1:30) shoots better than I can :yeah:

 

[chwebmaker]

After talking with Jeff at Bestill Creations, I'm leaning towards having him build me a gun. Any thoughts on his work.

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[Lee 9]

His work is top notch.

 

[ENCORE50A]

His work is top notch.

+1

 

[long shot]

you can't go wrong. His Rifles shoot