Insanity

[ENCORE50A]

.............................................George I understand your need for all that bh and happy you had the foresight to buy when you did.

Its pretty easy to burn up 20,000grs in just a couple days of competition. Some burn up twice that amount.

 

[smokepolehall]

I wont buy the BH again until the price for 8oz goes waaay down. Sighting in and target I use my T7 3f , shoots just about the same as BH for me . I save the 3/4 bottle of BH I have for hunting where I can leave the powder in rifle for whole hunting season if I want..

I think you will have a very long wait. I see where they raised powder price again on some smokeless.

 

[Svashtar]

When is this insanity going to stop? I was just doing a search for BH209 and the prices I'm seeing are nuts. $85-$95 for an 8 ounce canister!
Let's see; $90 for 8 oz at 70 grs a shot = 3500/70=50 charges, $90/50=$1.80 a shot just for powder! Now I love how it performs in my Knight Moutaineer but it was bad enough when I paid $75 for 8 oz I'll be damned if I'm going to give them this much money for it. It's cheaper to go smokeless and pay about $50 for a full pound of powder. If you shoot a lot it wouldn't take long to make up for your investment into a smokeless.
This is nothing but pure greed by Hodgdon/Western Powders. There is no way n 8 oz canister should cost more than $30-$40 in today's market.
Once my supply is exhausted I'm going with T7, even with the crud ring. I can work around that easy enough.

I have a few pounds of Goex FFFg and FFg, even some FFFFg for the flintlock flash pan, plus some Pyrodex RS and T7. I never had an inline 209 until last year, so didn’t think to get any when it was $25 a pound or whatever, which was only a few years ago. And sorry, $40 for 8 Oz? $80 a pound? That’s easily twice what it should cost. I know, all powder is crazy right now, but for BH209 they can’t use the excuse that they need it for 5.56 or 7.62 NATO.

I have enough 209 primers and regular primers to get by, along with smokeless powder. So, like you I’m thinking my next investment (that I’m learning about here) is a smokeless ML. I’m never going to pay the prices they’re asking for BH, or for any other powder and primer now, and luckily don’t have to right now.

I’m sure prices will eventually come back down, they always do eventually, so traditional BP or substitutes will have to suffice. And I wonder if it’s Hodgdon taking advantage and deliberately restricting supply to drive up demand, or just the market taking all it can get?

 

[dozer_xj]

I was never on the "BH209 is too expensive" wagon. It is an awesome powder and worth that price was always me attitude. I do not shoot for fun or competition, just to hunt. I finally have my 45 call mountaineer dialed in at 200 yards and now I am about out of BH209. I just don't know if I can give $95 for a half pound of powder. Maybe I will try to see how T7 does first before I drop the coin.

 

[smokepolehall]

I just figured up my cost of powder per pound, plus shipping & hazmat fees. $40.41 a pound for 12 lbs. I will never in my lifetime pay $90-$100 for a half pound of powder

 

[bronko220002]

My Moutaineer will be the only rifle that will shoot my remaining 209 then that too will move to T7. I have plenty of powder for my SML.

 

[Svashtar]

Nitrocellulose is the major ingredient in BH. I'm not giving Hodgdon and excuse, but this is what happened with covid, then Ukraine.

REMEMBER............. After the first shortage I suggested that shooters should stock up?




View attachment 44114


https://www.wsj.com/world/russia-do...plosives-ingredientwith-western-help-fd8d18bc

Thanks, I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Two days ago Vista Outdoors that owns Alliant Powder announced they were suspending gunpowder shipments indefinitely.

Evidently nitrocellulose is mainly provided by the Chinese, there’s a huge shortage of it because it was also used in Covid testing as you point out, and of course it’s also used in all military munitions.

So, assuming this stands we’re going to be having a shortage with higher and higher price hikes for all powders for quite some time, as in addition to Alliant stopping shipping, other manufacturers will be slammed as shooters flock to them. I’ll wait it out, even if it takes a couple of years. I have other BP options rather than paying $200 a lb and just feeding the growing frenzy.

Reminds me of a few years ago when people were paying $85 for 500 rds of Winchester white box .22 LR on eBay. Most of the sellers weren’t even shooters, they just stood in line at Walmart at 7 am, got their three boxes at $30 each, then immediately flipped them. I say don’t even play the game.

 

[bronko220002]

So, assuming this stands we’re going to be having a shortage with higher and higher price hikes for all powders for quite some time, as in addition to Alliant stopping shipping, other manufacturers will be slammed as shooters flock to them. I’ll wait it out, even if it takes a couple of years. I have other BP options rather than paying $200 a lb and just feeding the growing frenzy.

Waiting it out may sound like a viable option. I have lots of black powder and some subs but, and although it will still be fun, shooting black out of a higher end inline is like putting regular gas in a Corvette or a racecar. It may run but not to its full potential.

 

[Svashtar]

Waiting it out may sound like a viable option. I have lots of black powder and some subs but, and although it will still be fun, shooting black out of a higher end inline is like putting regular gas in a Corvette or a racecar. It may run but not to its full potential.

I get it, or at least I think I do. But my one .50 inline is definitely intended only for BP or a substitute, and my two late 1970’s TC Hawkens in .50 and .54, and a .58 Zouave rifle are also using old school propellants, so I’m not too affected. If I do get a SML I have smokeless powder I can divert, just need to determine the best type to use. I have powder for quite a few cartridges and hopefully one of them would work.

Right now after hearing about SML performance here, I’m researching different models. Question, do you need to ship a SML to an FFL? Or is it like a traditional BP firearm?

 

[ElDiablo]

Question, do you need to ship a SML to an FFL? Or is it like a traditional BP firearm?

Depends on the rifle’s action. Has nothing to do with the type of powder it uses.

 

[Fishbc]

Thanks, I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Two days ago Vista Outdoors that owns Alliant Powder announced they were suspending gunpowder shipments indefinitely.

Evidently nitrocellulose is mainly provided by the Chinese, there’s a huge shortage of it because it was also used in Covid testing as you point out, and of course it’s also used in all military munitions.

So, assuming this stands we’re going to be having a shortage with higher and higher price hikes for all powders for quite some time, as in addition to Alliant stopping shipping, other manufacturers will be slammed as shooters flock to them. I’ll wait it out, even if it takes a couple of years. I have other BP options rather than paying $200 a lb and just feeding the growing frenzy.

Reminds me of a few years ago when people were paying $85 for 500 rds of Winchester white box .22 LR on eBay. Most of the sellers weren’t even shooters, they just stood in line at Walmart at 7 am, got their three boxes at $30 each, then immediately flipped them. I say don’t even play the game.

I had a conversation with a Vendor at a gun show in Jan. He said that in about 3 months there was going to be almost no smokeless available.
So what you said about Alliant may be coming to fruition.
As for BH 209. In my life I’ve used many reloading components that were plentiful, and they were discontinued and I was left looking for an alternative.
With BH 209 in the last few years it seems to always be out of stock.
While I don’t think BH 209 will go extinct I won’t use it for fear of running out of it.
As far as pricing I’ve paid a lot of money for items I needed. But not if I cannot find it again.

 

[smokepolehall]

I have seen my sml powder prices rise, also my Swiss has went $8 more a pound. As much as it galls me to pay for the new price i am going to spend my funds i was saving up to get a a boat/trailer/& motor this Fall. Heck there is nothing to stop these Companies from raising prices so high that it will give you nose bleeds

 

[bronko220002]

Well nitrocellulose is man made sovwhy can't we make it here in the states!? Why are we always so dependent on foreign countries to make our stuff? Have we gotten that lazy as a country?

 

[MrTom]

Well nitrocellulose is man made sovwhy can't we make it here in the states!? Why are we always so dependent on foreign countries to make our stuff? Have we gotten that lazy as a country?

Unions, rules, laws, and then there's the idea that everyone's time is worth a million bucks. Its not that it can't be made here, its that its not profitable to make here.

 

[fishhawk2700]

Well nitrocellulose is man made sovwhy can't we make it here in the states!? Why are we always so dependent on foreign countries to make our stuff? Have we gotten that lazy as a country?

No, we haven't gotten that lazy as a country. The truth is that US based corporation have ZERO national loyalty. Public and private corporations are only interested in the bottom line. If they can go offshore to procure components/facilities/labor to save a penny, they will do it. Most of the time with the blessing of our bipartisan federal government.

Can we make the stuff here..........Sure, when it becomes profitable enough, the will make it here again.

 

[Smyrnagc]

Believe this thread has run its course.