Knight BH/W209 Bare 209 Breech Plug Owners, could you...

[Busta]

...PLEASE measure the overall length of the breech plug with a 209 primer inserted and post the results? Could you also measure the depth of the powder well on the front of the plug? These were available before the FPJ, and now that BH209 is out they are making a comeback. Thanks in advance.

This is the one, No FPJ required.

http://www.knightrifles.com/productdeta ... ?id=900045

 

[jsteurrys]

The NFPJ breechplug is convex ("domed"). The FPJ breechplug is concave. I will get the dimension on both style breechplugs within the next day for you.

 

[Busta]

The NFPJ breechplug is convex ("domed"). The FPJ breechplug is concave. I will get the dimension on both style breechplugs within the next day for you.

Thanks jsteurrys. I think the old ones (pre-FPJ) were concave like the FPJ plug, but I could be wrong. Just want to be sure we are talking about the same plug 5/8"-18 tpi, these were installed in the Bighorn and Wolverine and could be purchased for the MK-85, LK, BK, TK2000 before the FPJ was introduced. If the new ones are convex, could you give me the length to just the mating surface w/primer installed, not to the tip of the dome please? Thanks again.

Can someone that has a pre-FPJ bare 209 (5/8" diameter) breech plug that fits the Bighorn/MK-85/BK-92/LK-93/Wolverine/TK2000 please comment. Thanks.

 

[jsteurrys]

I have the newer ones that I purchased within the last year and a half for my MK-85. I will get the dimension that you requested on the NFPJ "domed" breechplug tonight. I do not recall them offering a bare 209 breechplug prior to the "domed" version. I could be wrong.

 

[Busta]

They had a 209 conversion before the FPJ Extreme conversion for the plunger guns. It came with the same hammer that the FPJ conversion does. I don't know if the plug was domed or not, but I believe it was concave. This conversion was out at least 10 years ago, before I remember hearing about the domed plugs.

Thanks again for any information.

 

[jsteurrys]

The breechplug with a Federal 209A Primer installed measures 1.654" from the face that contacts the shoulder in the barrel to the end of the Primer. I will check my 1999 Knight Catalog to see if I can find the breechplug you are thinking of in there.

Are you thinking of the Large Rifle Primer Conversion? The Hammer Assembly is very similar.

 

[Busta]

Thanks jsteurrys.

No, not the Large Rifle Primer Conversion, this was a 209 primer conversion. It came with the hammer (same as FPJ hammer), breech plug and primer tool just like in the attatched picture link.

http://www.knightrifles.com/productdeta ... ?id=900045

It was out at least a couple years before the FPJ conversion came out, so it may be in your 1999 catalog. It was not very popular then, and when the FPJ conversion came out even less so. They installed them in the Wolverines for a few years, probably to get rid of their inventory. Just thought somone here would have one of the old ones?

Thanks again.

 

[jsteurrys]

It is not in the 1999 Catalog. I guess it was not very popular as I never heard of it. What did you need the dimension for?

 

[Busta]

Trying to find a replacement for the H&R/NEF 5/8" plug that measures 1.510" from front of plug to back of primer. I guess the primer pocket and walls on the Knight plug could be cut .144" deeper fairly easily. Just wish it was concave, then I could just remove the .144" off the front of the plug.

Some of the domed plugs, as in the KRB7 and KP1 have been having problems setting off Blackhorn 209 reliably. The reason I want this plug is for the Blackhorn 209 powder. I guess it would be the easiest to convert of all the other plugs I have looked at so far.

Thanks.

NEF 5/8" Plug on left, 7/8" plug on right.

 

[Busta]

Just got a PM from a gentelman that has the old bare 209 (pre-FPJ) breech plug. It is 1.775" in length w/209 primer, it has a concave powder well that measures .307 deep. He has offered to send me pics, and I accepted. I also asked if I could copy and post the pics, hope to get a yes answer to that. Guess I'm not going crazy afterall. :lol:

 

[iowaforge]

Why a 0.121" difference in plugs for the same gun ?

 

[Busta]

Why a 0.121" difference in plugs for the same gun ?

The actual plug is probably the same length, the new on has a convex (domed) face, the old one has a concave powder well and a pellet well. The dome is probably .120" or so. These plugs are for the plunger action inlines.

This is the old 5/8"-18 pre-FPJ 209 breech plug. Pics, compliments of Night. Thanks!

 

[Corpe Nimrod]

I have this on my MK-85 and it took a new plunger to as the face of it was machined with a point in the center to detonate the 209. I believe you are correct, this might be the ticket for 209. The down side is that if there is substantial blowback, the plunger could be forced back after detonation. I will try some blackhorn 209 in it this weekend perhaps and post the results. I have to get a scope back on the MK-85 anyways! If you need more about the part, just email me and I'll help as much as I can!

 

[jsteurrys]

Learned something new this morning. I would be interested to see how the MK-85 performs with BH 209.

 

[Little Pirate]

The Bighorn performs pretty well with BH209; the MK85 should be similar.

 

[Busta]

Guys, I am in no way advocating using these in open breech, plunger type actions for Blackhorn 209. The Knight plunger/hammer has a pointed firing pin (cone) to actually pierce and displace the primer from the battery cup. This could be very dangerous, and the primer pieces (primer/anvil/battery cup) can actually become secondary projectiles. Just be aware of the possible hazzards, I don't want to see someone get hurt, or lose an eye over using a new powder.

I did some testing in one of my Whites, with a breech plug that is designed to bleed off the blowback pressures. This worked with Blackhorn 209, but some of the primers were coming unglued (Win W209, CCI, CCI Mag). The Federal 209A was the only one that didn't come apart, but even those with the Knight hammer/firing cone woud probably not be good.

What I want this for is to replace the crazy breech plug for my H&R Sidekick pictured in a post above. This is a break action, has a substantial standing breech that would prevent primer movement. It just needs to be modified slightly for proper headspace.

This old pre-FPJ plug has too big of a flame channel and flash hole IMO to be used with Blackhorn 209 in plunger type actions. PLEASE don't try it with this particular plug in the punger guns!

 

[Underclocked]

Busta, how does that length compare to the 5/8 NEF plug? You gonna get one?

 

[frontier gander]

Is that a used plug? A lot of crap in those threads it looks like.

Why a 0.121" difference in plugs for the same gun ?

The actual plug is probably the same length, the new on has a convex (domed) face, the old one has a concave powder well and a pellet well. The dome is probably .120" or so. These plugs are for the plunger action inlines.

This is the old 5/8"-18 pre-FPJ 209 breech plug. Pics, compliments of Night. Thanks!

 

[Busta]

Is that a used plug? A lot of crap in those threads it looks like.

You will have to ask poster "Night", and he says he can't post here for some unknown (to me) reason. He was able to PM me through MM, and he was gracious enough to send me the pics. I am sure it is just some anti seize left on the threads.

This is not a catalog pic from "KNIGHT", if that is what your getting at?

Thanks again for the pics Night, I am very pleased with them, hope to see you posting soon.

 

[Busta]

Busta, how does that length compare to the 5/8 NEF plug? You gonna get one?

The length of the 5/8" NEF plug is 1.510" w/primer, the length of the new (domed) NFPJ plug is 1.654" from mating surface w/primer, the length of the old (pre-FPJ) 209 plug is 1.775" w/primer. Both of these Knight plugs would have to be modified, preferrably in the primer pockets for the H&R/NEF. There is plenty of meat on the plugs, you wouldn't even get down to the hex head, and the flash hole is at the business end of the plug so that wouldn't come into play either.

I have exhausted all hopes in finding another 7/8" plug for the NEF's. This plug would either have to be made from scratch, or using a .25 ACP plug fitted with a 209 primer carrier conversion. Which I have crudely done a couple of different ways. One way is using a .25 ACP case with the rim turned down to wall O.D., and placed in upside down. the mouth of the case then becomes the primer pocket and material is removed until it headspaces off the rim.

pic, don't laugh, it works! :lol:

Poster jenkst at GBO, has another idea that also works, by using a UNI-Bushing. It needs a shim washer under the bushings collar for proper headspace, but also works.

pic without shim washer.

Of course I have the Hubbard plug I have modified with a o-ring in the bottom of the primer pocket that also works excellent.

I killed a buck Saturday with the Knight DE MHC with 120 gr BH209, Knight 250 grain PBT (Barnes TMZ), Federal 209A. That bullet is a tough SOB, pinwheeled both shoulders through the ball joints, and I think it is still going. :shock: Dropped him right there, but he was nice enough to get up and run 30 yards closer to the truck. :wink: Don't know how with two broken shoulders, but I guess he just didn't know he was dead yet.

Anyways, back to the H&R/NEF breech plug search.