MK-85 vs. Encore vs. Ultra-Lite

[Timberdoodle]

Hello! I’ve been perusing this site and I think it’s great! Lots of information delivered in a detailed, civil manner.

Years ago, I used to hunt deer in wooded areas that typically offered shots inside 50 yards. In 2000, I bought a .50 cal MK-85 with a bare 209 primer breech plug, which I still have. Never did take a deer with it but I recall it being pretty accurate at 100 yards. A few years ago, my father-in-law gave me his .50 cal Encore Pro Hunter. It, too, is pretty accurate at 100 yards. I’ve recently got back into deer hunting and I now have the opportunity to hunt a field with shots out to 250 yards. I actually took a doe in that field at 35 yards with the Encore last weekend.

I’ve decided I want to develop a load to shoot accurately out to 250 yards for next year’s hunting season. I just bought an Eotech Vudu 2.5-10x44 with a Mil-Hash reticle for this purpose. My question is should I attempt to do so with either the MK-85 or the Encore or just bite the bullet and buy a .45 cal. Knight Ultra-Lite? (After looking at all the options and reading commentary on them, I think the Ultra-Lite would be the best choice for me.) If anyone does well out to 250 yards with their MK-85 or Encore, I’d love to know what powder, sabot and bullet combination your rifle likes.

 

[Idaholewis]

HANDS DOWN The Knight Ultra-Lite, With it’s sealed Breech your HIGH dollar Scope will be Protected, The MK-85 Being a Plunger gun Can & will DESTROY a Scopes finish in as few as a Shot or 2 With Heavy Lead Conicals, The scope MUST be Wrapped in Electrical Tape Etc, Something to protect it from “Blow Back”

i am not familiar with the Encore, so can’t comment there

 

[Idaholewis]

250 Yards is a CINCH with a Scoped Knight Ultra-Lite

This was my old Knight Mountaineer (Same action as the Ultra-Lite) .45 Cal 1:20 Twist at 600 Yards, using my Paper Patched Bullets & Real Blackpowder, 25 Power Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 Scope. This was SLEEZY EASY with this Setup, until the Scope Fell apart

 

[GM54-120]

Let me see if i got this right.

You want to put a $800ish (OpticsPlanet sale price) 27oz scope on one of the rifles you listed?.........I would say the Encore or look at another scope for the Ulite. Might want to look at the Mountaineer 45 1-20 also. Its a better choice if long range is the goal.

 

[Idaholewis]

Let me see if i got this right.

You want to put a $800ish (OpticsPlanet sale price) 27oz scope on one of the rifles you listed?.........I would say the Encore or look at another scope for the Ulite. Might want to look at the Mountaineer 45 1-20 also. Its a better choice if long range is the goal.

The Eotech Vudu 2.5-10x44 say‘s Shock Proof 800 looks to be a Deal, The price on that Optic is more in the 1200 to 1500 Range from what i see. The Knight Ultra-Lite would Test it, Especially with Lead Conicals. I thought the Ultra-Lite was Fairly Mild Recoil Wise, At least that’s what I remember when i Shot Chet’s New U-lite 45/1:20 out here, We were shooting 350 Grain Lead through his, The Cheap Nikon Had no problem handling it

 

[GM54-120]

Yeah thats a killer price at OpticsPlanet. Other than weight the specs look ok. Just hate to see something that heavy on a Ulite. Personally im not a huge fan of illuminated fancy reticles either. At least not on a ML.

MGM offers a Encore 45cal 1-20 smoker barrel that should handle heavy BH209 loads pretty good. Even has a pretty nice rail available. I think that barrel is under $500 too. You will really want to consider sabotless and that meens an adjustable sizing die also. So add on another $125-$160. Them 5r barrels are better suited to sabotless IMO but sabots could work too.
https://matchgrademachine.com/custom-thompson-center-muzzleloader-barrel/

 

[Timberdoodle]

Guys, thanks for the replies. I do have straps that velcro over the breech and the scope for the MK-85. I didn’t have any scope finish issues from shooting it but I also didn’t know how potentially damaging the powder is.

I actually got the scope for $699 from Dvor (which is owned by Optics Planet). It is a bit heavier than I’d like for the Ultra-Lite. The only thing that turns me off about the Moutaineer is the barrel length. I know a longer barrel is better for long-range accuracy but I like the idea of a 24” barrel for all-around use. I still plan to use it in the woods and one hard-blind that I have access to is really small, so maneuvering a 27” barreled rifle may be a little difficult.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Well I'm going to throw my 2¢ in.... LOL

ENCORE all the way. Its easily a 250yd rifle with the right load combination. Lots of tricks can be completed on the Encore frames to make them feel like a different rifle.
Then there's always the option as GM mentioned, of changing to a custom barrel.
I've taken MANY whitetail over the years with Encore platform rifles and at ranges to 250yds+.

The MK85 is what it is and will remain so.
Nothing against the UL, but my entire vote goes to the Encore.

 

[Idaholewis]

Well I'm going to throw my 2¢ in.... LOL

ENCORE all the way. Its easily a 250yd rifle with the right load combination. Lots of tricks can be completed on the Encore frames to make them feel like a different rifle.
Then there's always the option as GM mentioned, of changing to a custom barrel.
I've taken MANY whitetail over the years with Encore platform rifles and at ranges to 250yds+.

The MK85 is what it is and will remain so.
Nothing against the UL, but my entire vote goes to the Encore.

I have never fired, or even handled an Encore Muzzleloader. My only experience with the Encore was in CF, I had it in a Rifle (7 Rem Mag) and .500 S&W Pistol, The Encore Rile i owned was BY FAR the Worst Rifle i have ever owned in my Lifetime thus Far. It completely broke me from even considering another Break Action Rifle.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I have never fired, or even handled an Encore Muzzleloader. My only experience with the Encore was in CF, I had it in a Rifle (7 Rem Mag) and .500 S&W Pistol, The Encore Rile i owned was BY FAR the Worst Rifle i have ever owned in my Lifetime thus Far. It completely broke me from even considering another Break Action Rifle.

LOL......... that can happen

When the Encore first hit the market, IIRC somewhere around 90-91, I jumped on it. I learned that platform inside and out. I learned things about that platform and how that break open rifle could be extremely accurate. I've shot a lot of .5moa 200yd groups with Encores. I spent consider time discussing the platform with Mike Bellm. I was actually the first to report springboarding to Mike with the muzzleloader. CF guys realized it, but not enough shooters were shooting long range muzzleloaders to recognize it. Mike had/has a cure for that.
I've owned many Encore platform rifles since they were released. I know prices have changed now, but back when I was shooting them, $36 could make it feel like a completely different rifle.
I'll admit, I regret selling my last 209x50. If I'd have known then what I know now, I'd have never sold that rifle. Believe this........ to 200yds it would shoot just as accurate as DUNAMIS.

 

[Timberdoodle]

ENCORE50A, thanks for the encouragement. My thought was that I don’t want to spend money on a new barrel and improvements to the action for the Encore when I can just buy a new Knight and have it good to go out of the box. However, if there are some things I can do to the action without buying a new barrel, I would consider that. Can you tell me what you’d recommend and any idea of the cost?

BTW, Idaholewis, that’s some awesome shooting in your video.

 

[ENCORE50A]

ENCORE50A, thanks for the encouragement. My thought was that I don’t want to spend money on a new barrel and improvements to the action for the Encore when I can just buy a new Knight and have it good to go out of the box. However, if there are some things I can do to the action without buying a new barrel, I would consider that. Can you tell me what you’d recommend and any idea of the cost?

BTW, Idaholewis, that’s some awesome shooting in your video.

Even that Knight will need a modification to the breech IMO. I wouldn't even shoot one before talking with Bestill (Jeff) and having the plug fixed for good.

Bellm has all these parts.
With the Encore..... If you can work with small parts, its easy to modify the frame. First thing is those darn triggers at 7-8#. THEY SUCK! Changing out the trigger spring to one that benefits you. I always preferred 2# triggers. HD firing pin springs, HD locking lug spring, 50# hammer spring or the 45#. That HD locking lug spring can be a bitxx to change if you don't pay attention. It can end up in parts unknown. It gives a much hardier lockup.

I haven't been on Mike's site in a LONG time, but prices should be listed. Bellm T/Cs | Your Thompson/Center Home

 

[Idaholewis]

LOL......... that can happen

When the Encore first hit the market, IIRC somewhere around 90-91, I jumped on it. I learned that platform inside and out. I learned things about that platform and how that break open rifle could be extremely accurate. I've shot a lot of .5moa 200yd groups with Encores. I spent consider time discussing the platform with Mike Bellm. I was actually the first to report springboarding to Mike with the muzzleloader. CF guys realized it, but not enough shooters were shooting long range muzzleloaders to recognize it. Mike had/has a cure for that.
I've owned many Encore platform rifles since they were released. I know prices have changed now, but back when I was shooting them, $36 could make it feel like a completely different rifle.
I'll admit, I regret selling my last 209x50. If I'd have known then what I know now, I'd have never sold that rifle. Believe this........ to 200yds it would shoot just as accurate as DUNAMIS.

The best i can remember, Mine would have been in early 2000 to 2005, it was Stainless, With Fluted Barrel. Back then you could Buy Xtra Barrels in Blister Packs for 250 bucks a piece. The Encore Pistol i had was Kinda Cool, and really made the Most sense for the S&W 500 Magnum, But even though that Pistol Barrel had a Muzzlebreak of Sorts (Ported holes) It stil Kicked like a NASTY Mule! I was running 500 Grain XTPs in it, With FULL TILT H-110 Loads, GNARLY!! But Cool

I couldn’t get the Darn Rifle to Shoot for Anything? I bought it Brand new. I have handloaded Precision Centerfire since i was 14-15 Years Old to present, I tried EVERYTHING i knew with that Darn Rifle, It was a Pie Plate Shooter at best, and that was at 100 Yards. After giving it everything i knew? I ditched it and Went back to my Bolt Guns. That Rifle has never left my Mind, It BROKE me from Break Action Rifles, I haven’t considered one since, I personally see them as “Not even an Option”

I am a funny guy with things that have BURNED me in the Past, I RARELY give them a Chance to Burn me Twice. That said, I know guy’s that like them, And Swear by them. The Guy’s i know that have & love em, Really like it that they can Swap Barrels. Ford/Chevy Deal, I drive a Toyota

 

[ENCORE50A]

Encores are like any other rifle, even sidelocks. Once you learn how to make them better, improvements are unbelievable. You know those sidehammers like the back of your hand and could take them apart and put back together blind folded. There was a time I was like that with the Encore platform.

I lost a ton of photos and videos when a desktop destroyed itself. I only have a few photos of Encore targets.

This is a common target from my last 209x50 shooting 200yds.



In this photo, a friend who had never shot a muzzleloader beyond 50yds, was taught to shoot 200yd. He could keep it MOA, also shooting an Encore.

 

[GM54-120]

If you already have a Encore frame.....Look at that MGM 45 1-20 5R setup. It uses a plug designed by ASG. Even with the sizing die it should end costing less. $480 was the base price in SS and HausOfArms sold them a little cheaper.

 

[Idaholewis]

Encores are like any other rifle, even sidelocks. Once you learn how to make them better, improvements are unbelievable. You know those sidehammers like the back of your hand and could take them apart and put back together blind folded. There was a time I was like that with the Encore platform.

I lost a ton of photos and videos when a desktop destroyed itself. I only have a few photos of Encore targets.

This is a common target from my last 209x50 shooting 200yds.

View attachment 11675

In this photo, a friend who had never shot a muzzleloader beyond 50yds, was taught to shoot 200yd. He could keep it MOA, also shooting an Encore.

View attachment 11676

I fully agree

 

[dwm]

Even that Knight will need a modification to the breech IMO. I wouldn't even shoot one before talking with Bestill (Jeff) and having the plug fixed for good.

Bellm has all these parts.
With the Encore..... If you can work with small parts, its easy to modify the frame. First thing is those darn triggers at 7-8#. THEY SUCK! Changing out the trigger spring to one that benefits you. I always preferred 2# triggers. HD firing pin springs, HD locking lug spring, 50# hammer spring or the 45#. That HD locking lug spring can be a bitxx to change if you don't pay attention. It can end up in parts unknown. It gives a much hardier lockup.

I haven't been on Mike's site in a LONG time, but prices should be listed. Bellm T/Cs | Your Thompson/Center Home

I just bought a #2 bellm spring kit on Ebay from bellm for 29 bucks, the gentleman is correct, it makes a different gun out of it, get the pliers for the trigger spring, trust me. good luck. I also have the ultra lite, great gun

 

[ENCORE50A]

Bellm T/Cs | tc encore prohunter endeavor spring kits - sk

 

[Hatchet Jack]

You should have no problem taking deer out to 250 yards with that Encore Pro Hunter, with the right scope, bullet and powder combination.

 

[dwm]

Bellm T/Cs | tc encore prohunter endeavor spring kits - sk

I got robbed, lol