New Lehigh ML in the works

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Seems accurate sure enough...but is it a muzzleloader??? that is the question? My 40-65 rolling block does about the same with a tang sight. I just load the shell case..bullet and all right in the chamber close her up take aim and fire. But my rolling block is many years older and is NOT a muzzleloader. Maybe when the rifle is rolled out for all to see it will change some opinions..maybe not.

If you read the laws it’s a muzzleloader. The ATF has it and will let everyone know yes/no when they want. It’s that simple!! But it’s by farrrrr the safest cleanest ML I’ve ever used. No breech plugs, no shims, no washers, no problems. If you like it great, if you don’t quit reading about it. I did hear today, the ATF can take all the time they want.
 
Good, bad or whatever its illegal to use here during the "ML season" unless its a pistol because ours allows CF pistol too.
 
This kinda reminds me of that hot girl in HS, in your mind it’s gonna be the best thing since sliced bread. Then you finally get that chance and it was all hype...


But you guys better hurry and order yours today, sounds like everyone loves them and like their gonna run out. Kinda like the online hotel reservation sites, only one room left...
 
Out of those 500 I wonder how many knew how this gun functioned prior to committing. I mean, it sounded like the best thing since sliced bread. I would have committed to it sight unseen by the way it was all hyped up.(If the price seemed fair) Now some may be committed to a firearm they can't use in muzzleloader season and possibly even in other firearms seasons.
I hope I am wrong.
 
Out of those 500 I wonder how many knew how this gun functioned prior to committing. I mean, it sounded like the best thing since sliced bread. I would have committed to it sight unseen by the way it was all hyped up.(If the price seemed fair) Now some may be committed to a firearm they can't use in muzzleloader season and possibly even in other firearms seasons.
I hope I am wrong.

Yes, they have all been seen and used. There’s a lot of contender lovers out there. I’m not a big fan of break opens, but love the concept.
 
I feel like the idea has merit. I've mentioned it before, but my father in law was a huge fan of contenders. He thought it was the perfect platform for about everything. I can't tell you how many different times he talked about almost exactly this gun. He wanted cut down a 45-70 case, prime it, dump in his powder charge and then seal it with an over powder card. Load that from the breech and load the bullet from the muzzle. That was going to be his super simple muzzleloader. But he didn't want to risk his 45-70 barrel in case something went wrong, and when he asked the state DNR about it they said absolutely not. If there was any possibility of it loading from the breech then it was a no go. I believe the conversation came down to their needing to be a breech plug that couldn't just fall out of the barrel (he also thought about cutting down a case down to about a half inch or so, filling it so it was solid then tapping it for a vent liner and using that as a threadless breech plug.)

So all that said, I can see where the idea has merit. I could see it being a super easy way to get a kid out during ML season or just a different type of gun to play with. I'm disappointed because it's not a gun I can hunt with. Initially I expected something much different so I had to adjust expectations. I appreciate the ingenuity and I understand now why Haus of Arms kept referring to it as more of a hybrid muzzleloader. I won't but one of those because I can't shoot it, however if Lehigh can develop a true smokeless muzzleloader based off this new SSK -50 frame I'll buy one even if I can only shoot reduced loads with it.
that is exactly like Harry Pope's rifles. and they were considered a breech loader , not legal in Indiana by shoving a bullet down the barrel. That doesn't make it a muzzle loader
 
Grouse,

Am I seeing the "Stops", I saw mentioned somewhere, in this picture at the base of that bullet? So is the bullet loaded down from the muzzle till it hits this stop?

upload_2019-10-27_11-13-59.jpeg

How are you re-charging the cases? Are they going to include or sell a die for crimping the case?
 
Grouse,

Am I seeing the "Stops", I saw mentioned somewhere, in this picture at the base of that bullet? So is the bullet loaded down from the muzzle till it hits this stop?

View attachment 5854

How are you re-charging the cases? Are they going to include or sell a die for crimping the case?

Yes, the patent said it could have 1-5 or 6 "seat pins, for cartridge charges from 1/2" up to 3" in length. The barrel has been compromised, and there is no way I'm ever pulling the trigger on a compromised barrel.


I take back my, just kidding.


You're the winner for the best name. NIGHTMARE!

I guess they didn't learn anything from the Traditions / SilencerCo Maxim 50? Went over like a lead balloon.

Hopefully they did some extreme deviating from the patent?

Not looking like it.


After closer reviewing the patent and included illustrations, I have come to the conclusion that this patent is not for a big bore / big game hunting rifle.

This patent is for a subsonic / suppressed low pressure small bore MINO (Muzzleloader In Name Only) small game / target rifle similar to a conventional pneumatic / springer air rifle. I say this because the only thing loaded from the muzzle is the bullet. The bullet is seated down through a drop tube that has to be inserted into the suppressed portion so the bullet can be inserted into the barrel portion and seated onto the "seat pin(s)". The rimfire primer module also includes the propellant and is inserted from the breech end. So, basically, a crimped or conical nosed cartridge from 1/2" to 3" in length, without a bullet. This is where the "muzzleloader" ends for me personally. When the propellant and bullet is no longer loaded through the muzzle, IMO, it is no longer a "muzzleloader". I don't care if it is just a small game / target / novelty rifle.

The seat pins and short 10" barrel would prevent it from being a serious higher pressure big bore hunting rifle. The seat pins are inserted by drilling a hole perpendicularly INTO the bore and the pin can be fastened in place by several different methods. Such as welding, threaded screw, epoxies, brazing, etc,. Once the wall of the bore, especially in the combustion area is compromised, this is no longer more than a low pressure rifle at that point alone. The patent provides for 1 up to 5 or 6 of these "seat pins". Sorry, but for a serious muzzleloader design, this one is all full of holes for me.

Obviously, the rifle being discussed in this thread, is not the same rifle depicted in that patent!

Maybe it wasn't so obvious, with all the hype.


I got a lot more than that, but it was from more than just the illustrations. The reading is repetitive, and boring as heck, but I managed to struggle through it. Patents can be a real PITA to read and comprehend.

To me, a muzzleloader is completely loaded from the muzzle. Powder / pellet, patch / wad / shot cup / sabot, bullet / shot / projectile. The only thing loaded from the breech would be the ignition source, match, flint and pan powder, percussion cap, primer, primer module, etc,.

There was also provisions for putting that all in a bolt action configuration as well as the break action. It mentioned smooth bore, rifled bore, shot, and several different types of bullets / projectiles.

The next thing they'll want to do, is put the bullet into the end of that primer / powder cartridge and load that all from the breech. What is this world coming to?

Still stand by that statement. Looks like we've been duped into thinking this would actually be a muzzleloader. Not so much.


Here is a link, for those that can read it. From the illustrations in the patent, and the rimfire ignition source, I suspected it had to be something like the old Contenders with the rimfire, safe, and center fire selector hammers. I guess we'll see, when it's ready to be seen.

It was an excellent read, and sounds promising for the SSK-50, and regular muzzleloading barrels with a breech plug. For the suppressed muzzleloader with the "seat pins" and no breech plug, not so much!


At Haus of Arms FB page. Only 2 comments.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...5468&id=468080113256309&anchor_composer=false



It's better here at SSK, with more comments and follow ups. 79ish comments.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...4093&id=123710554320586&anchor_composer=false

If it don't have a breech plug, I ain't interested, PERIOD!
 
The way I see it, this is another muzzle loading "system" that manufacturer will say requires their bullet/primer/charge to perform properly. Most ML systems that require proprietary bullets/primer/charge have gone the way of the dinosaur. Not to mention the other things that are just wrong. Looks like Lehigh has reinvented the wheel......to bad its square.
 
Another person has been doing a lot of testing and sent me a chronagraph number from a 17" barrel and a 24" barrel with a 240grn bullet. The 17 was 2027fps and the 24 was 2159fps. My original 1/22 test barrel was 20". The new 1/20 i got is 24" which is a little long for a break open in my opinion.
 
Grouse,

Am I seeing the "Stops", I saw mentioned somewhere, in this picture at the base of that bullet? So is the bullet loaded down from the muzzle till it hits this stop?

View attachment 5854

How are you re-charging the cases? Are they going to include or sell a die for crimping the case?

Yes, the bullet is loaded from the muzzle and pushed down to the stops. This is a great idea to me for safety. Anything is possible, but pretty hard to ever double load or make any mistakes with this gun. Like i said, its the safest cleanest ML ive ever used. And really fun to shoot. No breech plug to worry about. No flame channels to worry about eroding, easy to load or unload charge. Push bullet out without having to remove a breech plug right in your stand. This thing is just crazy simple if the ATF says its a ML.

As far as the pictures above they are dirty no doubt. Lots of changes have been made with casings and powders so i don't know how old that pic is or who has it. I'm sure more changes will be made as well. Like i said, i really dont have a complete gun yet.
 
My initial reaction was disappointment. I expected a muzzleloader as I know muzzleloaders. This was always billed to be something new and different so I shouldn’t ultimately be surprised. After having some time to look at it a bunch and allowing my expectations to adjust to what it is and not what I wanted it to be, I kinda like it. I’m very curious to see how it works with reloading the brass. Will you be required to purchase them direct from Lehigh? Or can you reload them at home? What’s max charge or bullet weight for it? And will it top out at 200 yards?
Unfortunately I still probably won’t be able to justify purchasing one. I’ve taken a pretty solid stance that if I can’t hunt with a gun I don’t need it. In the past when I’ve bought a gun just because it always ends up in the back corner and gets passed over for something that will be with me in the fall. But maybe MN will surprise me and say it’s legal.
 
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