New Thompson Hawken

[Buck Conner1]

Those TC Hawkens and New Englander and Renegade rifles may not have been what the Mountain Men carried. But if they had of had them they would have used them.

That's for you Buck. :evil: :Scucks: :blah:

TC Hawken isn't even close. ​

"But if they had of had them they would have used them." ​

Probably for firewood and horseshoe nails turd.​

GRRW Hawken's were as close as one could get to an original.​

 

[burlesontom]

Hey Buck are you calling someone here a "turd?

And just so you know your picture is of a Traditions rifle and not of the excellent TC built rifles. And Henry Leman built better rifles than the Hawkins did. :thumbs up:

 

[burlesontom]

Hylander I got an email a couple of weeks ago from TOW and they had green Mountain drop in slow twist round ball barrels back in stock if you can't get your present barrel to shoot to your satisfaction. I believe the price was $269.00.

 

[Hylander]

Hylander I got an email a couple of weeks ago from TOW and they had green Mountain drop in slow twist round ball barrels back in stock if you can't get your present barrel to shoot to your satisfaction. I believe the price was $269.00.

Thanks,
Yes I saw that as well and may order one.
My preferred thing to do is find a 45 cal barrel to have rebored to 50 cal with a 1:56 twist deep groove.

 

[burlesontom]

I am a fan of the 1/56 twist myself. I first heard of it long ago in the Mountain State muzzle loading catalog. They sold a couple of rifles with that twist. Slow enough for a round ball but not so slow you need an extra powder charge to spin the ball fast enough for good accuracy.

That new gun I just bought that looks like the Cabelas Hawken with the 1/60 twist is supposed to have an .008 to.010 groove depth. At least according to my old Dixie catalog. That should work.

But I bet if you give your new Hawken a chance you can make it shoot. I have had a couple of them and 3 Renegades and thought they all shot pretty good.

 

[Buck Conner1]

And just so you know your picture is of a Traditions rifle and not of the excellent TC built rifles.

And Henry Leman built better rifles than the Hawkins did. :thumbs up:

They were pictures to show profiles, I have handled, sold or traded for more TC firearms than anyone combined on this list. When still in business we had two buyers hitting every estate sale, farm sales or ads in the local newspapers buying inexpensive muzzleloaders. I had deals with three large sporting goods stores in Northern Colorado that didn't like muzzleloaders (because of the additional inventory needed for them). They would take them in trade and then trade them to me for modern guns we had gotten in trade and didn't want to sell in our operation (win - win for all parties). In the 80's and 90's an average TC found at a sale could be bought for $50-$60 dollars in good condition. As soon as they hit the door one of our guys would tear them down, clean all the metal parts, soak the barrels, touch up bluing, pull dents out of the stocks then give then some Birchwood Casey stock finish. If they came in mid week they were on the sales rack for the weekend and sold by Sunday night. 

A $50 dollar gun would bring $150 after being cleaned up, had a friend remark we were "charging to much".  Once we explained commission fee, time involved in making the gun correct (sometimes need missing parts) then sitting on the rack until sold was all involved. If they still wanted to talk about costs compared to sales cost I would say "someone needs to pay to turn the lights on", that ended the conversation. 

I have handled a few original Hawken rifles, the best one was the Medina rifle (his daughter was buried on our property just a few miles from his trading post on the Big Thompson.

I agree H.E. Leman was a better built rifle (mainly because of having machinery that performed different function in the build). We have own several Lemans, in fact I have two originals hanging on the wall in my office. Know a little bit about them seeing how a family member owned a machine shop in Lancaster PA when Leman was still in business there (lots of old tales).   :thumbs up:

The trouble with this stuff is when your younger it's all about money, when you get older you kick yourself in the butt for not saving some of these guns. Same with cars owned, have had some new cars, then sold them and now I watch theses auctions and see a car I paid $4,000 for in the day bring $75,000 or more.  :slaps:

 

[Renegadehunter]

Perhaps it hasn't ever been shot and still has some sharp edges in the rifling?  I'm just wondering if it's tearing the patches due to the barrel needing broke in still.  Try loading a patched ball and then pull it again and see what the patch looks like.

 

[burlesontom]

Hey Buck sounds like you had a good thing going. I used to do that on a much smaller scale. I would buy guns, everyone knew I was good for quick cash on a gun if the price were right. Then I would clean them and resell. If I could make 50-75 bucks on the gun I was happy.

And I really don't know if Lemans were better than Hawkens, I was just pullin'yer chain. :blah:

I am reading the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle right now and Ned Roberts stated the Hawken rifles were the "Ne Plus Ultra" of those type of guns. I wish I could handle one of Hawkens and Leman rifles just to see for myself. I was supposed to make a trip to Dixie Gunworks last summer but it all fell through. I wanted to at least see these guns up close for myself.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Perhaps it hasn't ever been shot and still has some sharp edges in the rifling?  I'm just wondering if it's tearing the patches due to the barrel needing broke in still.  Try loading a patched ball and then pull it again and see what the patch looks like.

You may want to look at Jonathan's products to cure your problem.

 

[Sparkitoff1]

What I like about the Renegade platform is the flat/wide butt-plate and the lack of cheek comb. Some people complain about the drop and felt recoil on their face but I don't experience that. In my case I put a GM barrel and L&R lock on a Renegade stock to make what I wanted.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Hey Buck sounds like you had a good thing going. I used to do that on a much smaller scale. I would buy guns, everyone knew I was good for quick cash on a gun if the price were right. Then I would clean them and resell. If I could make 50-75 bucks on the gun I was happy.

And I really don't know if Lemans were better than Hawkens, I was just pullin'yer chain. :blah:

I am reading the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle right now and Ned Roberts stated the Hawken rifles were the "Ne Plus Ultra" of those type of guns. I wish I could handle one of Hawkens and Leman rifles just to see for myself. I was supposed to make a trip to Dixie Gunworks last summer but it all fell through. I wanted to at least see these guns up close for myself.

You were doing the same as us and about the same profit margin.

GRRW had the original Jim Bridger's Hawken on loan for them as well as several other famous mountainmen Hawkens to make schematic drawings (now available at Track of the Wolf). When GRRW closed Doc White cut a deal with TOTW and traded the schematic drawings of original Hawkens and Leman rifles for parts.

Carl Walker and Les Bennett (GRRW gunsmiths) tolds me the Jim Bridger's Hawken had issues from the factory. They pulled the breech plug and found the rifling machine got off and left the first 6 inches from the breech clean (no rifling). They found a few other minor items, but didn't go into detail. Carl said even back then, time was money, fix the mistake and sell the gun (they felt guns today are better than their counterparts). The guys at GRRW felt what they saw of originals (Hawken and Leman), Lemans had less issues.

Fun stuff bud.   :Red tup:

 

[burlesontom]

You have some great stories Buck. I wish Burleson Tx was a little closer to Lehi Utah. I would to sit and listen to some of your stories.

 

[Buck Conner1]

The sad thing is I only tell you the good stuff, don't like to repeat the crap that went south and there were some pretty good ones over the years.   :no:   ale:  That was the material things, the ladies - now that's a different story ...  :affraid:   :Wow:

 

[Renegadehunter]

Perhaps it hasn't ever been shot and still has some sharp edges in the rifling?  I'm just wondering if it's tearing the patches due to the barrel needing broke in still.  Try loading a patched ball and then pull it again and see what the patch looks like.

You may want to look at Jonathan's products to cure your problem.

I'm not sure what you mean?
I was referring to Hylander's post about the range report not being good, and that some of the patches were blown apart.  In a previous post he said the rifle looks to be unfired.  I was suggesting that perhaps it truly was unfired and therefore needs the barrel broke in, as I've heard of some rifles having some sharp edges until they are fired a couple hundred times.  If its a "new" barrel it could be cutting the patches, thus causing his accuracy issues.  Wouldn't hurt to check before throwing a bunch of different patch thicknesses, lubes, etc. at it.

 

[Mofish]

Please excuse my photos, I'm not too adept in the skills of picture taking. I just thought some of you might like to see what I consider more of the style of the original Hawkens. This full stock model has a 1" barrel and it's 35" long...so it is fairly heavy and I personally think it would be a project to carry it on a horse. 
I good friend, that is no longer with us, gave me a Sharon barrel and the full stock blank to build a rifle with. I gave it to another friend that is a great muzzleloader builder and he put this together for me. It is a .50 caliber with a 1x60 twist and shoots like a champ.

 

[Mofish]

A couple more pics:

 

[burlesontom]

The sad thing is I only tell you the good stuff, don't like to repeat the crap that went south and there were some pretty good ones over the years.   :no:   ale:  That was the material things, the ladies - now that's a different story ...  :affraid:   :Wow:

Buck I was wondering when someone would use that squirrel thingy. I have been looking for just the right place to use it but you nailed it.  :thumbs up:

Mofish your gun is stunning. And the weight of a sure 'nuff Hawken is what keeps me from pursuing getting one. I got to handle one old original half stock of some sort and I bet that sucker weighed 13 pounds if it weighed a pound.

I guess if you were deer hunting and forgot your balls you could just climb up a tree and wait for a deer to walk under you and just drop the rifle on him. That should do it. :cheers:

 

[Mofish]

Being an old guy, it can be a little tough sometimes, but I still try to shoot a match once a month. I let this Hawken sit in a safe for about 5 yrs. before I even started shooting it, and opted for stuff like some of my .40's and .45's to use in the matches. But considering the fact that I don't know how many years I have left to compete and enjoy my rifles, I pulled it out about 6 months back and started shooting it in the matches. 
After all I decided I should enjoy it now instead of someone else getting to enjoy it after I am gone !

 

[BigAl52]

Very nice rifle Mofish

 

[BigAl52]

Read thru some of this thread and have been following it. Comments made on other forums about accuracy of the TC being a Hawken. Tom says who cares. My thoughts exactly. I dont care what was accurate and Im not thinking TC even cared when they built the gun. When someone says that to me there overlooking the fact that there was a great interest in those guns. TC made a bunch of them Renegades, Hawkens, Senacas, Penn, and other models. It sparked an interest into muzzleloading and I for one would have not ever gotten into muzzleloading when I did if it hadnt been for TC. I wonder how many other guys followed there lead into the sport. Im betting there isnt very many guys shooting muzzleloaders that havent had a TC in there house at one time or another. Just my .02 worth YMMV