Opinions Wanted - Terminal Performance

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Hi all - I know I've been asking a TON of questions about this stuff...and maybe some range time this weekend will help me resolve some of my own questions. But, for now... For shots UNDER 50 yards...percussion sidelock, 1:48... EVEN if a Hornady XTP 240 grain with sabot flies straight out of the barrel...for terminal performance, best probability of an exit wound, no/little tracking... would you use the saboted round of a heavy - 358 grain Hornady Great Plains or something similar?

I am not an expert in physics at all...I am trying to understand what bullet is best for what situation...is the benefit of a smaller/lighter bullet nestled in a sabot one of accuracy at range...so like, with my CVA Wolf .50 cal, with a scope...I'd do better on a 150 yard shot with a .45 cal bullet in a sabot that fits my .50 cal bore because it will have more accuracy and energy than a solid chunk of lead at the same distance?

Asking because I hunt two different places. In one, shots are under 50 yards, guaranteed...and having the animal drop in its tracks is very valuable because of not wanting to have leave my property lines. In the second hunting spot, shots of 100 yards or more are possible.

Instead of dragging guns back and forth, I am thinking of using the sidelock Deerhunter for both "regular" muzzleloader and primitive on the sub-50 yard property (with whatever bullet/load works best at that range) and the CVA Wolf at the other, with whatever bullet/load works best for ranges of 50-150 yards.

 

[deermanok]

IMO, a slow moving heavy chuck of lead, (conical bullet), at close range, will hit like a freight train.

 

[snapbang]

What deermanok said. Close or far a heavy piece of lead will put the hurt on them.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Big slow heavy piece of lead up close and personal. Like hitting them with a sledgehammer. Although a nice head shot with a sabot/bullet can be just as effective. Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more. Hit what youre aiming for.

 

[snapbang]

Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more. Hit what youre aiming for.

Accuracy is everything.

 

[Ninering62]

IMO, a slow moving heavy chuck of lead, (conical bullet), at close range, will hit like a freight train.

Yes it sure does.

 

[Ninering62]

Big slow heavy piece of lead up close and personal. Like hitting them with a sledgehammer. Although a nice head shot with a sabot/bullet can be just as effective. Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more. Hit what youre aiming for.

Right on bro. Aim small/Miss small. Ya know I love my neck & headshots. I absolutely agree that a big hunk of lead at a slow velocity does hit like a freight train & bodyslam a deer at close range. I grew up havin too deer hunt with a 12ga & slugs in a smoothbore shotgun, then with my grandpaw's Rem mod 141 .35 pump rifle ( which, with 200gr RN bullets really do bodyslam a deer ) then with my 1st TC Hawken.50 with PRB's. But its not at all needed in reality. With a good performing much lighter bullet & the right shot placement, you can drop a deer or almost any other large animal in their tracks. I've dropped deer, pigs & cows on the farm with a .22 between the eyes & they fold right up without a step. I've dropped deer with a .38 pistol & a .30 carbine - again, head & neck shots = DRT I know this doesn't really apply to some degree here, bc I'm talking CF ammo & cal.'s but the point remains the same - massive hunks of lead with big felt recoil isn't necessary to drop a deer in its tracks at all. It really is cool though to hit them with big slow-moving lead & watch them get bodyslammed like they were hit by a train outta nofreakinwhere isn't it. In my older age & health, I'll take fast, flat-shooting light bullets with much less felt recoil

 

[Confederate rifleman]

The 250 grain. 45 caliber Hornady XTP should meet your needs nicely. I've used them on 13 deer with complete success. I use 70 grains of 3f Swiss black and a Harvester crush rib sabot. 1575 for from my 24 inch Firehawk and 1610 fps from my 28 inch TC Hawken. Only had one that wasn't a pass through. That was a 100 yard front quartering shot on a BIG doe. It was 3/4" across and still weighed 238 grains No deer hit has gone more than 50 yards. They are accurate in a 1-48 twist too.
I zero at 100 yards. At 50, I'm + 2 and am down 8" at 150 yards.

 

[deerlessbob]

If you search this forum, I think you’ll find lots of support for the 240, 250 and 300 grain XTP’s. With the right powder charge and sabot, a well placed shot will earn you an easy to find expired deer. The 300 will have, in my experience, noticeably more, but not unbearable, recoil.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Kinetic Energy (in foot-pounds) = bullet weight (in grains) x velocity x velocity (fps) / 450240

example: a 115 grain bullet traveling at 1300 fps = 431 ft. lbs of muzzle energy.

The formula above reveals the fact that changing the velocity of the bullet makes the biggest difference in energy. Doubling the weight of the bullet doubles the energy, but doubling the velocity changes the energy by a factor of four.

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Morning all...balmy -2 degrees where I am. So...I took some shots this morning. Pictures below. Remember, we are talking freezing hands and open sights {not even aperture ring} the first two are from 25 yards, the one that depicts 4 shots, the 2 original plus the new 2...the new two are from fifty yards. These shots were all taken with the Hornady XTP 240 grain, green sabot from the Traditions Deerhunter 1:48, 80 grains by volume 777 FFg. I am pleased with the outcome. Certainly good enough for bringing down a deer...and in reality, I exect to take a shot at 35 yards or under.

I also took one shot with the Barnes TEZ 250 grain, blue sabot. It was the disaster in the upper right hand corner. Looks like it keyholed...not really sure what is happening there. Clearly not the round I will use for this season.

Given time constraints, I think I will go with the Hornady XTP for the primitive hunt in two weeks. In the fall, when it is warmer and I am not under time pressure...I will play with other loads...try and get a peep sight installed in order to tighten things up to fifty yards or more.

 

[MrTom]

Terminal performance can only be guessed at using water bottle and wet newspaper or gel blocks. Gel blocks would probably offer the closest comparison of a hit on a deer that did not include bone. One has to actually go poke a critter to see how the bullet performs USING HIS GUN AND LOAD. Terminal velocity is NOT an absolute with any bullet simply due to all of the variables involved, like velocity, range, bullet design, yada, yada, yada. I know that XTPs, Deep Curls, A-Frames and XPBs as well as a couple Barnes Expanders, all perform beautifully on deer when shot at the charge levels I use and inside of 2 hundred yards using bullet weights of between 195 grains and 300 grains. I get the usual clean entry and an exit of about 1-1/4" with the internals affected being a mess. But that is me. Somebody, or 100 others, might not share that sentiment. The only way to see if a bullet works satisfactorily for us is to go shoot in thru an animal that you want to use it on.

 

[deermanok]

Looking good. Off the bench?

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Looking good. Off the bench?

Tripod, me seated.

 

[deermanok]

Tripod, me seated.

You should be good to go. Glad the XTPs worked for you.

 

[Harley469]

Just to verify, many of you are using Hornady XTP's with Sabots in your 1:48 twist rifles? I have my Dad's .54 1:48 custom percussion rifle that I have only shot round balls out of it so far, but would love to find something that will hit a little harder at a greater distance. I have some MMP .54 sabots, so hopefully some of the .500 diameter bullets or even some of my .451 diameter bullets work. I can't remember which .54 sabots I have. I'm sure I have some kind of bullet/sabot combo that will seat well enough, but not sure how well the shots will group. I bought some .54 conicals from Parker Productions, but they just fall down the barrel. They will probably be too large for the sabot however- I measured them at about .510 if I remember correctly.

 

[Hurricane]

Was this the maiden voyage for your new Deerhunter? Feel good to finally punch some holes in paper?
Congrats!

 

[idahoron]

I'm sure some of you are sick of my pictures.
In 50 cal I use my Lee 500S&W bullet paper patched and sized. These are 458 grains. I have shot a lot of game with them. I mean a lot, and I can tell you I have not seen a bullet come close to them. The bull in the picture was the second one I found a bullet In. I dropped him in his tracks at 248 yards.
I shot a cow at 60 yards. Crushed the shoulder and found the bullet in the flank.
No matter where I hit deer and antelope it blows right through them.
The Hornady 385 gr bullet is such a poor bullet I can't recommend them. The power belts are so awful I can't recommend them.
The only bullets I recommend are the no excuse.

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Just to verify, many of you are using Hornady XTP's with Sabots in your 1:48 twist rifles? I have my Dad's .54 1:48 custom percussion rifle that I have only shot round balls out of it so far, but would love to find something that will hit a little harder at a greater distance. I have some MMP .54 sabots, so hopefully some of the .500 diameter bullets or even some of my .451 diameter bullets work. I can't remember which .54 sabots I have. I'm sure I have some kind of bullet/sabot combo that will seat well enough, but not sure how well the shots will group. I bought some .54 conicals from Parker Productions, but they just fall down the barrel. They will probably be too large for the sabot however- I measured them at about .510 if I remember correctly.

I am confirming that in my case it was a Hornady XTP 240 grain in a sabot out of a 1:48 twist. Maybe this will work for you? 54 Cal. Sabot 300 gr. .452 Hornady XTP Mag Bullet - Pack Qty: 12

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Was this the maiden voyage for your new Deerhunter? Feel good to finally punch some holes in paper?
Congrats!

Maiden voyage indeed. I should also acknowledge that, true to sidelock form, I did have one load that failed to go off. Cap popped but no boom. Waited a minute, recapped... shot again, and boom. Barrel is definately tighter than my CVA Wolf, difficult to both start and finish loading the Hornady sabot... doable, but tight. Swabbed after three shots.